Concerned Learning Material Developers wanting to address the poor quality of training material. For discussion of problems, and solutions to: the widely varying prices, sometimes obviously stolen material, and the question of who controls the Quality of QCTO material.
Non Delivery from Developer
4th Oct 2011 at 8:39 am #38661
Any idea as to what course of action I should follow wrt the following challenge I am having:
I purchased a Unit Standard from a developer in Port Elizabeth (she recently changed her name to something completely different) Paid in full and then waited and waited….. Despite numerous promises and commitments from her she has only sent me three of 25 docs via WIndows Live. I had all intentions of purchasing 12 Unit Standards in total from her but have obviously been burnt by this experience. I would like to caution other folk of my experience. Is it ethical to Name and Shame her?
4th Oct 2011 at 8:51 am #38683
4th Oct 2011 at 9:00 am #38682
Most ethical developers ask a deposit fee then final once client is happy. Perhaps you have been taken for a ride? Have you tried every means to contact them? Perhaps they have taken too much on and cannot cope and are simply too inexperienced to contact you directly again??
Advise from me is that you always do a background check on the supplier, who else has used them, what their qualifications are and sample material.Never pay fully upfront….
4th Oct 2011 at 9:08 am #38681
4th Oct 2011 at 9:19 am #38680
I have had the same experience with a Jhb Developer and also don’t know if I should warn everyone or not – I do believe that we can’t be the only ones – I am sure if we did name them we would hear stories from others as well.
Also felt too bad to name and shame and have been promised my money back but still waiting.
4th Oct 2011 at 9:48 am #38679
It is a pity that this is happening. Recently another provider asked the non-delivering developer publicly (on this site) about delivery. I am sure it is not easy for a provider to decide whom to make use of for developing matarial. Sure, qualifications do count, as does integrity. Checking references should assist and also evaluation of sample material, as Tass is suggesting. Another factor to consider when appointing a developer is to consider whether the agreed timeframe is realistic. What recourse is the developer offering in the event of non-delivery?
We as developers can only flourish when our clients are satisfied, or even better, delighted with the material they receive from us.
4th Oct 2011 at 4:53 pm #38678
Hi Peter, Think we are all talking about the same person… I have new cell number and email address for her (if it is one and the same) however she does not reply to sms or email and does not answer call (unless offering more work for her to do). Please feel free to contact me on firstname.lastname@example.org and if it is the same person will gladly pass on her new contact details…
Out of interest this particular lady, still owes me my deposit after fulling out of some development work after three weeks into it…
4th Oct 2011 at 6:44 pm #38677
Hi to all, We have been made aware by a few members of complaints about other members – for non-payment of facilitation and non-delivery of training material previously paid for. We believe that a very good site for this type of issue is hellopeter, which can also be used as a source of referencing before doing business with someone. If you have a problem with non-delivery of material, then it is appropriate to try and make contact to resolve the matter amicably. However, if this is not possible, the next possible course of action is to lay a charge at your local police station – or depending on the amount, the small claims court. If you do that, then there is no problem with you posting a comment stating that you have laid a charge against “whoever” for “whatever” amount for “whatever” reason. We would allow the individual named a right of reply – all they have to do is join in their full name and post a reply. You can then post the outcome of the action. In the event that we have a legal document advising us of a finding against a member, then we would suspend them from the site permanently.
I’d also like to point out that providing facilitation at very short notice, or having to pay in full up front – both seem to me to be questionable business practices, so it would be appropriate to ask why this is necessary. Surely a more professional practice would be: an acceptable sample of work is provided and leads to a small deposit; as work progresses and is delivered progress payments are made – always keeping some money back until the completed and acceptable final product is fully delivered. If this is not practice within the skills development community, why not? Rather than naming and shaming (which you can do on hellopeter) as the majority of members on this site are in skills development related activities, rather develop a code of practice for facilitation payments, and a code of practice for materials developers. We can post the documents on site as standards. All reputable and reliable providers sign up. Anyone who doesn’t – don’t work with them. It will benefit all the small providers just starting out to have a document to guide their business practices.
4th Oct 2011 at 7:20 pm #38676
Very sound suggestions, thank you, Sylvia. Codes of practice would certainly help professionalise the nature of business relationships and should provide confidence to signed-up training providers in the ethics of the developers who have signed up. It should also help developers who are not always sure about the ethics of prospective clients.
5th Oct 2011 at 7:05 am #38675
5th Oct 2011 at 7:30 am #38674
I think it comes down to honour, integrity and honesty. i do not agree that banning the advertising of business is an answer but I do think part of the agreement of membership of the site should be that we abide by a code of ethics for members of the Skills universe and failure to comply will result in naming and shaming together with an automatic banning from the site.
5th Oct 2011 at 8:10 am #38673
Hi Peter, Please understand from our side that we cannot simply accept a complaint – there may well be another side to the story. We certainly do not have the infrastructure to provide a detective investigative service to investigate complaints – as you will understand we provide all of our sites as free access. However, if you take action – which I suggest you should do – then you can come back to skills-universe and report what you have done.
6th Oct 2011 at 9:22 am #38672
11th Oct 2011 at 9:41 am #38671
18th Oct 2011 at 8:12 am #38670
18th Oct 2011 at 10:35 am #38669
Hi Peter ,
I believe a “background process” approach is much better in this case. Definately more dangerous but due to the current rules and regulations and the need to keep Skills-Universe free from “shame”it is the only solution. There is however more drastic steps you can take especially if this is a continuous occurance by the same person (and it can be proven).I agree with Sylvia – there is definately another side to every story and we don’t want to burn the innocent.
However it was a good idea to take a chance with just the one unit standard.Good luck.
24th Oct 2011 at 9:35 pm #38668
I would like to make contact with you and all the others that experienced problems with this specific person.
Our legal team is just about to institute legal action against this person. We will certainly not give him/her the pleasure of getting away with this.
Kindly mail your details to email@example.com
25th Oct 2011 at 5:58 am #38667
Very interesting developments on this discussion. Mariaan, my question: Is it ethical for SETAs to refer providers to developers? They do not work directly with developers, do they? And they don’t know about all the developers, do they? Do tehy cannot give an unbiased reference. If they do in the sense that the developer hands in the material, there are many excellent developers/SDFs out there who do submit material on behalf of their clients to the SETAs without promoting themselves to the SETAs.
In my opinion a list of satisfied customers as references should help the provider. I don’t hesitate to give a list of references to my potential clients.
25th Oct 2011 at 6:30 am #38666
To add to my previous comment (apologies for the typing errors – I tried to correct but it was too late. I meant “So they cannot give an unbiased reference.): The process that you describe seems to be as follows: The SETA employee (which must be the evaluator of material else they will not know about the quality of work of the developer) refers an (enquiring?) provider to a developer. The developer gets the business based on the SETA evaluator’s recommendation. The material is handed in by the developer. The material is approved by the referring evaluator. (Is that why some developers advertise material as “accredited by the SETA”?). I smell a rat in this process – I cannot see ethics in an evaluator doing a referral and then evaluating material that is handed in for approval for registration. Most SETAs have only one evaluator in a region.
I am fortunate to have a group of providers who keep me more than busy with repeat business instructiuons because they are excited about the quality of work they receive.
25th Oct 2011 at 6:51 am #38665
I always wondered if the seta is allowed to refer or recommend material developer to buyers, i would like to think this distort the market. You would find a seta recommending the developer to training provider, what about the small developers, excellent work they produce? I always wanted to develop material for a certain seta, the quality assussor recommend that the training provider should buy material from a certain company, what about us small developers?
can somebody help me, I develop materail for sale, somebody ask for seta accredited materail, how can one accredit material as a materail developer not a training provider? PLEASE HELP.
25th Oct 2011 at 7:04 am #38664
Hi Zibanai. It seems that there are some irregularities in the market – I cannot see a SETA recommending that a provider should buy material from a specific developer. The role of SETAs is to – in the words of a representative from the ServiceSETA when I enquired on behalf of someone else about having material registered for the purpose of selling “accredited material” – to accredit providers and register their material; not to register or accredit material to offer for sale. The only way for you to go is to source your clients and deliver quality material that meets the requirements for registration against your provider clients. You will get repeat business from satisfied clients. And they will refer other people to you. And note I refer to “clients” not “customers” – customers “buy” your material while “clients” make use of a professional service.
25th Oct 2011 at 8:39 am #38663
I totally agree with you, I don”t know why would an evaluator recommend the developer to a training provider, the training provider has to be involved in the development of thematerial to be used at his/ her workplace. where would customisation can in, if you adopt other businesses’ material? why are setas, not providing generic material to be used by all training providers? why are setas employing lazy evaluators who will ask already accredited material? these are some of the question that come to my mind each time, our reliable clients ask for accredited material.
25th Oct 2011 at 8:54 am #38662
thank you for insight, i wanted us to make it clear to some of our clients. they should at least have thier own customised material from reliable material developers.
Marie Smith said:Hi Zibanai. It seems that there are some irregularities in the market – I cannot see a SETA recommending that a provider should buy material from a specific developer. The role of SETAs is to – in the words of a representative from the ServiceSETA when I enquired on behalf of someone else about having material registered for the purpose of selling “accredited material” – to accredit providers and register their material; not to register or accredit material to offer for sale. The only way for you to go is to source your clients and deliver quality material that meets the requirements for registration against your provider clients. You will get repeat business from satisfied clients. And they will refer other people to you. And note I refer to “clients” not “customers” – customers “buy” your material while “clients” make use of a professional service.
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