Concerned Providers Interest Group – QCTO/SAQA/SETA/DHET


SAQA to the Rescue!!!!!

This topic contains 65 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Skills Universe 2 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #31392

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    To all Skills Universe Members!  Communication from Mr Joe Samuels (CEO – SAQA) are as follows:

    The SAQA Board at its meeting of 1 October 2014 decided that all qualifications would be extended for a further 3 three years, except those who will be recommended for replacement by the Quality Councils and those qualifications with no learner uptake that will be de-registered (these qualifications who don’t have any learners registered against it). The Quality Councils and SAQA will interact around the specific qualifications and it will be published on SAQA website as usual!

    The issue of the SETA landscape is a different issue and that decision of how many SETAs and function of SETAs and whether their licences will be extended rests with the Minster of Higher education and Training. There is currently a process underway to make decisions in this regard. However, it is important to note that the departmental view is that quality assurance in the workplace should be located with the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations and not necessarily with SETAs.

    Absolutely wonderful news!  Thank you Mr Samuels and the rest of the SAQA team!

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  • #31454

    Anonymous

    As usual Lynel, superstar! Thank you!

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  • #31453

    Anonymous

    Hi Lynel,

    I’ve missed this part… “departmental view is that quality assurance in the workplace should be located with the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations and not necessarily with SETA” –

    I accept this refers to learning?

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  • #31452

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Pierre, you are most welcome.  The thanks and appreciation goes to Mr Samuels and SAQA.  They pulled through for us – I am thankful today!  As least now providers can plan for the next 3 years, conduct training and continue with their passion!  I believe that Providers, Assessors, Moderators, Facilitators will do S.A. proud and up-skill learners!

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  • #31451

    Wow!  Wonderful news indeed for a Friday morning. Thanks for the information sharing Lynel. 🙂

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  • #31450

    Andrew Friedemann
    Participant

    This is wonderful news, HOWEVER, I have recently discovered that CATHSSSETA has not been uploading achievemts of skills programmes and single unit standards to the NLRD, and as such they seem to have no learners registered against them, yet we have certificates for over 600 achievements.

    How can we get SAQA to extend these as well, and force CATHSSETA to upload legitimate achievements? Does anyone have a direct contact who could query this?

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  • #31449

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Pierre ……….. well, this is a departmental view only – so I am sure that various discussions are in progress to see what will fit best.  The workplace and Employers opening up to give learners the opportunity to conduct the practical aspect, which will be compulsory – will remain a challenge.  I am of the opinion that this will not work – there will be a percentage of Employers that will do this, but the majority won’t as it will cost them money, slow down production/operations to say the least.  I would have rather recommended that Assessment Centres include a Simulated Workplace (whether real or electronic) in order to give every learner (especially those unemployed) a chance of completing their qualification without begging Employers to assist with practical workplace exposure.  This is the biggest obstacle and different areas/methods to assist all and any learner have not been explored against reality.  This factor alone could crash the complete new occupational qualifications.

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  • #31448

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Kholwani, you are most welcome!  Our thanks go to SAQA!

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  • #31447

    Hi Andrew. Try contacting Yvonne Shapiro at yshapiro@saqa.co.za – she is the Director of the NLRD 

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  • #31446

    Tass Schwab
    Participant

    Collective –PHEW~~~

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  • #31445

    wowiekazowie! I’m so excited. I just can’t hide it. If you could see a picture of me now, you would see me jumping and clicking my heels together in the air. Thanks, Lynel! Do you have anything in writing?

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  • #31444

    Des Squire
    Participant

    The QA function was delegated to the SETAS after the formation of the QCTO. This I understand will remain the case until such time as it is taken away form the SETAS. In my opinion this is not likely to happen.

    I would really like to see what SAQA have put in writing related to the extension of registration – is there a possibility we can have sight of this or can have clarification/confirmation from SAQA CEO – Mr Samuel?

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  • #31443

    FASSET will be sending me something about this which I will share when I get it

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  • #31442

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Jacqui, Mr Samuels commented on the discussion : The Question remains – what or how do we plan? – This is communication directly from Mr Samuels!

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  • #31441

    Pierre – it should be “quality assurance of workplace learning” I thought that we are speaking about learning here but understand that it should stated factually correct!

    Thanks for asking the question and allowing me to clarify.

    Joe

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  • #31440

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Reply by Joe Samuels 9 hours ago

    “Dear Lynel

    The SAQA Board at its meeting of 1 October 2014 decided that all qualifications would be extended for a further 3 three years, except those who will be recommended for replacement by the Quality Councils and those qualifications with no learner uptake that will be de-registered (these qualifications who don’t have any learners registered against it). The Quality Councils and SAQA will interact around the specific qualifications and it will be published on SAQA website as usual!

    The issue of the SETA landscape is a different issue and that decision of how many SETAs and function of SETAs and whether their licences will be extended rests with the Minster of Higher education and Training. There is currently a process underway to make decisions in this regard. However, it is important to note that the departmental view is that quality assurance in the workplace should be located with the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations and not necessarily with SETAs.

    Regards

    Joe Samuels”

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  • #31439

    Hi Des

    Firstly, what writing do you need to see from SAQA? Secondly, the quality assurance responsibility and function for worksplace learning, by law, is assigned to the QCTO. SETAs and other bdies have been delegated to perform the function by the QCTO. The QCTO can decide that they will do the quality assurance themselves and not to delegate it – Sometimes it is useful for opinions to be based on factual information!   

    Regards

    Joe

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  • #31438

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Sometimes IT is soooo frustrating!

    This is the comment I wanted to display above the quotation of Joe Samuels’ response.

    For those who have asked: “can we have this in writing”, I have copied the response that Joe Samuels made on Lynel’s discussion: The Question remains: what or how do we plan? so that it is in this discussion as well.

    Thank you Joe  – have a great weekend. 

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  • #31437

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Hi Joe, I’ve copied your previous response to Lynel into this discussion as well for those who missed it.

    Further questions – if I may please:

    What is the possibility that we could get quite a quick response to the “unused” qualifications?  It would give us a better idea of the magnitude of the task at hand.

    Am I correct in my understanding then – is the extension from 1 October 2014 so that they expire in 2017, and are all current qualifications expiring at the same time now?  Or is it just the “legacy” qualifications?

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  • #31436

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Mr Samuels, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with us, I am sure that many members have been glued to the information that came through today.  Your information today has had a great impact, and well received with relief.  We are forever grateful to you and your team.  Thank you so much

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  • #31435

    Dear Joe, I think we need the decision to roll the qualifications over or reregister them in some kind of official communique. Not sure if that would be possible, but it certainly would be helpful and put a lot of people’s minds at rest. I was advised today by Heidi Peters that the CSSA qualifications (Level 7 and 8) are not currently being considered by the QCTO although we were appointed by the stakeholders as the DQP in January last year. Then the Minister’s moratorium came, and then the QCTO moratorium came and so we are not even on the stove yet, let alone the back burner! The CSSA qualifications need to be refreshed  – they are currently 8 years old! So how would we do that in the interim? 

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  • #31434

    Hi Sylvia

    The extension of existing qualifications is from the 1 July 2015 until 30 June 2018. All qualifications have a start date and and end date. So all those existing qualifications with the end date of 30 June 2015 will be re-registered for a three year period unless they are replaced by other qualifications or de-registered. We have made a list of the qualifications with no learner uptake. We will consult with QCs about them. Once this process has been completed we will then de-register them and the notice of the list will appear on the SAQA website.  I will check numbers when I am back in the office but there is a substantial number.

    Regards

    Joe

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  • #31433

    Des Squire
    Participant

    Thank you Joe, that is exactly what I said – the function was delegated to the SETAS.

    If the dates have been extended then it would be nice to have this communicated by SAQA – that is all nothing else. I understood a globular extension could not be extended. I was suggesting we establish fact from fiction before jumping up and down. 

    You seem upset at my comment and I am a little taken aback by the tone. Thanks for everything.   

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  • #31432

    Dear Des

    My apologies for the tone – I posted earlier to questions that was raised by Lynel on the matter of the extension of existing qualifications and what the SAQA Board decided, so I was not sure what other writing was required. I have taken the point that it would be good if we could prepare a formal communique. We can certainly do so but I will not post something on a website without being sure of my facts.  The only point I made around quality assurance of workplace learning was that there is a debate and discussion that is happening about the role of SETAs and that the Minister will make the decision around the size of SETA landscape as well as the licencing of SETAs and that an expressed view was (reiterated by the chairperson of the portfolio committee) that the QCTO should take over the quality assurance function.

    Thanks for your continued support!

    Joe 

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  • #31431

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Great thanks Joe – understood.  

    Yes, if you could make progress on the de-registration I believe that would significantly “clean-up” – and also be some indication of progress.  

    I am in the process of re-writing my skills-universe discussion on the SAQA QCTO presentations for theHRportal.co.za – it’s now in 4 parts – 3 are already posted and the 4th will be a discussion of the implications of the qualification reformatting into the QCTO format and the extension of qualifications. I will post the links once the 4th article is posted. 

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  • #31430

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Hi Jax, please enlighten me – I’m aware of the QCTO moratorium – but “the Minister’s moratorium”??

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  • #31429
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  • #31428

    The PMG was scathing in its response to the QCTO annual report, and despite the chairman of the PC stating that the QCTO must take over the QA function, I would dearly love to know how they are going to do so successfully at this point. Perhaps the Minister’s observation in the Green Paper that maybe the QCTO would be disbanded, needs to be considered as a serious option.  

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  • #31427

    I can’t find number 3, Sylvia

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  • #31426

    Sorry no idea what went wrong with my post: In December 2012 the Minister called a halt to the redevelopment of all quals as he wanted to satisfy himself that the QCTO could be tasked with handling all levels of the NQF. The relevant parties had six months to report back (by June 2013). In that interim period everything came to a grinding halt and has, in terms of our quals at Levels 7 and 8, never moved forward, and since priority is now being give to the Level 1 – 6 quals (some 2000?) it will be a miracle if this ever gets through the QCTO processes. 

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  • #31425

    Des Squire
    Participant

     Not a problem Joe, but thank you none the less. I appreciate this. as usual keep up the good work and I assure you of my on-going support as always.

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  • #31424

    Janelle Gravett
    Participant

    This is excellent news!  Thank you Lynel, Joe and all at SAQA.  Finally some light at the end of the tunnel

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  • #31423

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Janelle! You are most welcome! I hope that the great news have reached enough individuals and businesses, training providers, Assessors, moderators, SETAs, employers to name a few. This news will be published very soon. We will continue with our passion to up skill individuals to the best of our abilities! I am most excited for the learners (who ever they are, where ever they are) – their dreams and goals can continue in their learning path, at least for now and until June 2018.

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  • #31422

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Herewith the list of Qualifications and Unit Standards – I have included filters for ease of reference.  Lists drawn from the SAQA website – dated 21 October 2014.

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  • #31421

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Thank you so much Lynel – a quick sort on the Qualifications gives me  2 336 for the OQSF, which accords with what we’ve been hearing.  

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  • #31420

    Anonymous

    Thanks Lynel!

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  • #31419

    Anonymous

    Thank you Mr Samuels!

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  • #31418

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    No problem Sylvia!  What I did not know, is that these 2 lists, get updated approximately every 2 months.  Something new I have learned today!

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  • #31417

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    I didn’t know that either – we do learn every day.  Now the next very interesting piece of information will be the number of those qualifications under the OQSF that have no uptake and no learners.

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  • #31416

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Interesting indeed.  If we look at the below published notes:

    The Minister of Higher Education and Training, on 14 December 2012, published the determination of the Sub-frameworks that comprise the NQF. As part of the transitional arrangements between the SAQA Act, Act 58 of 1995 and the NQF Act, Act 67 of 2008, SAQA must allocate all registered qualifications to each of the sub-frameworks. In implementing the allocation, the following will apply: All registered qualifications belong to one or other of the 3 sub-frameworks All new qualifications belong to the sub-framework that developed them Qualifications which have reached their end date before 14 December 2012 will not be reallocated.

    The lists does not give an indication of which ones are being used, and which ones have not been utilised.  My assumption is that, most of the qualifications currently registered (take away all those who have reached their expiry date) could be registered June 2015 and will end June 2018. 

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  • #31415

    Andrew Friedemann
    Participant

    Of course is it a case of there actually being no uptake, or is it just the ETQA’s are not uploading the data as in our case?

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  • #31414

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Andrew, this is a concern!  Uploading of records onto the NLRD is of utmost importance, and if this is not done, then we are facing big obstacles!  The norm for NLRD uploads is twice a year from the SETA to the NLRD (although most of the SETAs upload from their side up to four times a year – provider uploads validation, as the numbers are massive to validate). You must engage with your SETA in writing, keep record of your requests and concerns.  All Providers need to make sure that the qualifications and unit standards being used, are being uploaded timeously – to ascertain that those qualifications and unit standards will be extended till June 2018!

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  • #31413

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi John, you are welcome.  Yes, it does take a lot of time and efforts.  I don’t always have the time to post but I am trying my best to give important information or to ask important questions in order to stay current and off course share with concerns individuals/training providers.  Education is important, learners are important and our passion is crucial!  So my mission is to assist and ask – especially for those who are to scared to ask for various reasons.  I will post important information as I get it, and hope that the information will assist you to plan and continue with quality education!

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  • #31412

    Thank you for the invaluable information shared here!

    I too was very interested in the enrollments on certain qualifications, and when I called the NLRD on Friday, Karien (who was extremely professional and friendly) informed me that the best was to contact the SETA with whom the qualification sits for this information to avoid being charged for info that is freely available from the SETA.

    I do hope that we will get clarification on the ‘legacy’ qualifications soon though.

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  • #31411

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Celeste, Karien is always very helpful!  Maybe we should request this information from the SETAs and see what their response is, it might help!  Some of the qualifications are generic, so I am not sure how we will deal with those?  This is something we need to work on, and get the information so that we can share this with everyone!

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  • #31410

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi Joe. I take it that SAQA will once again also consult SETAs about qualifications that do not have uptake before de-registering them. We know that in the days of excitement and exuberance, a few qualifications were developed and registered that stakeholders identified as being needed, but that had little or no uptake. The CHIETA is finding that our stakeholders are enquiring about a couple of qualifications that had no uptake but that are registered. So it would be good to also consult SETAs before deregistering the qualifications, even if this is done via that relevant QCs.

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  • #31456

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi Joe. I take it that SAQA will once again also consult SETAs about qualifications that do not have uptake before de-registering them. We know that in the days of excitement and exuberance, a few qualifications were developed and registered that stakeholders identified as being needed, but that had little or no uptake. The CHIETA is finding that our stakeholders are enquiring about a couple of qualifications that had no uptake but that are registered. So it would be good to also consult SETAs before deregistering the qualifications, even if this is done via that relevant QCs.

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  • #42990

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi Joe. I take it that SAQA will once again also consult SETAs about qualifications that do not have uptake before de-registering them. We know that in the days of excitement and exuberance, a few qualifications were developed and registered that stakeholders identified as being needed, but that had little or no uptake. The CHIETA is finding that our stakeholders are enquiring about a couple of qualifications that had no uptake but that are registered. So it would be good to also consult SETAs before deregistering the qualifications, even if this is done via that relevant QCs.

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  • #44034

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi Joe. I take it that SAQA will once again also consult SETAs about qualifications that do not have uptake before de-registering them. We know that in the days of excitement and exuberance, a few qualifications were developed and registered that stakeholders identified as being needed, but that had little or no uptake. The CHIETA is finding that our stakeholders are enquiring about a couple of qualifications that had no uptake but that are registered. So it would be good to also consult SETAs before deregistering the qualifications, even if this is done via that relevant QCs.

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  • #31409

    Steve Short
    Participant

    Thank you Lynel for your obvious effort in posting this and for taking the time to respond to questions in such detail.  Concerning the comments by Mr Samuels, I am gobsmacked but positively so.  How often does one see such a such a senior official show such transparency these days?  That’s what I call leadership of the highest order… thank you sir!

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  • #31408

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    I second that 🙂

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  • #31407

    Anonymous

    Namaste to that Steve!

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  • #31406

    True that Steve.

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  • #31405

    I have noticed that (most) generic qualifications have learning programmes recorded against them. Thus it shouldn’t be terribly difficult to get these numbers from the ETQA, but I doubt that these generics will be on the ‘endangered list’. I suspect that qualifications designed and registered by private providers may be the first to ‘get the chop’.

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  • #31404

    Jackie Franck
    Participant

    Hi Lynel, yes, thanks again for all your effort.  I don’t think we would have known about this good news very easily if it wasn’t for you.  Well done!

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  • #31403

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Jackie, you are most welcome!  I hope that this news have reached everybody concerned!  We will keep each other updated!!

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  • #31402

    Wilma de Villiers
    Participant

    Lynel, you started an important conversation and I followed it with interest.  I was relieved when I read Jo Samuels’ reaction and thought that the qualifications were now extended for a further 3 years and that we could then still enroll students for the following three years (up to 2019).

    Today I spoke to a person from the ETDP SETA and was informed that we are still only allowed to enrol students up to June 2015 but they will then have time to complete the qualification(s) up to 2019. 

    I am now confused?!?

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  • #31401

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Wilma, thank you for your interest and kind words! Yes,it is true! Qualifications that are being utilized will be extended as per Mr Samuels! Unfortunately some SETAs are not up to date as yet. This will be communicated to them soon! Any information that we get, we share to assist each other. We are up to date and a couple of steps ahead! Don’t be confused! Mr Samuels have confirmed, and I will take his word. Mr Samuels won’t post communication if it was not true. I trust that this information is sufficient! Any other information that is important will be posted! It is very important for everybody to stay current and know what is going on!

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  • #31400

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    For your ease of reference!

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  • #31399

    Steve Short
    Participant

    ? Lynel?

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  • #31398

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Standing by Steve ………….

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  • #31397

    David Jooste
    Participant

    I need your fax number to fax you a chocolate for all your trouble

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  • #31396

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    One day when I am big, I will purchase a fax machine, just to receive that chocolate from you David!  Glad I could refresh the past workings we all did together!!

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  • #31395

    Steve Short
    Participant

    I must be slow Lynel.  Still standing by to find out what you meant by “For your ease of reference!”

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  • #31394

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Hi Steve – you not slow.  SAQA to the Rescue discussion has the communication and decision of the re-registration of SAQA qualifications reading June 2018 – which was discussed in the current discussion QCTO Developments.  So, this is the confirmation to Providers.  I made reference to the SAQA to the Rescue discussion for those who forgot that we have requested clarity, and we did get it.  Now the QCTO is actually just informing the same, although this decision was made last year in October already! 

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  • #31393

    Steve Short
    Participant

    Awesome thanks for clarifying Lynel 🙂

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