Workshop Report on Umalusi consultative meeting April 2013


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This topic contains 24 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Skills Universe 2 years ago.

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  • #35116

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    On the 16 April 2013 Umalusi held a consultative workshop for service providers.  A key announcement was the changes to accreditation of service providers.  From the 1 May 2013 accreditation will now be per site per programme.

    For a full report please see the attached report by APPETD:

    Workshop_Report_Consultative_Meeting_Umalusi_Royal_Elephant%20CC_16April2013.docx

    All training service providers should download (or obtain) the relevant documents from Umalusi.

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  • #35140

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi. i passed the workshop report on to QCTO management, just for their information. Some very relevant points in the report and we can all take heed to it and learn from it.

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  • #43069

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi. i passed the workshop report on to QCTO management, just for their information. Some very relevant points in the report and we can all take heed to it and learn from it.

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  • #44110

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Hi. i passed the workshop report on to QCTO management, just for their information. Some very relevant points in the report and we can all take heed to it and learn from it.

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  • #35139

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Cynthia,

    You must have expressed considerable constraint when writing this report!

    The mood among the private providers is to say the least ugly.  As quite a few said:  It seems as if Umalusi is out to kill the private providers (Vani Chetty the presenter) denied this but I must admit that in discussions afterwards this was the prevailing feeling.

    Umalusi seems to be in hiding as nobody answers any correspondence.

    As to the remark by Zhita about nobody being allowed to run a private FET college before it is registered; we come back to the age old dilemma of which comes first, the chicken or the egg.  In order to be registered with the DHET a provider has to be accredited by Umalusi and this can take up to two years (if you are lucky).  In the mean time the provider has to pay his expenses.  Like the comment about being challenged in the Constitutional Court.

    Also fully agree with you that they are sitting in ivory towers with no idea of the world outside.  

    The new process requires a considerable amount of work – which Umalusi expects the provider to do WHILE running a business.  They are totally against the use of professional people who have made a study of the process assisting the providers; I have had this argument quite a few times but there is no satisfactory reply from Umalusi as to why the provider has to compile his own POE in his own time (say two years) while he can use a professional who can do the work correctly and in a much shorter time.

    While I agree that the conference was handled badly (to say the least) the concept is good and I had been fortunate to be part of the pilot project where 8 participants took place.  Compared to the ‘old’ process where one evaluator visited a provider this is much more rigorous and there is less chance of ‘smoothing the way’.

    PS.  For some unknown reason most of the private providers are not members of APPETD – tried to sway them but not much success as yet

    Bernard Botha

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  • #35138

    Jacqueline Klem
    Participant

    Thank you for this information. We have worked on all the Umalusi requirements for the last 12 months and despite being in their system have not received any information on the documents, the proposals, the consultative meetings or the changes. When I phoned Umalusi last week to follow-up again, I was told all out – phone this week. When I phoned this week Monday it was the first word I heard out of the mouth of Mary-Louise about this whole earthquake that has hit us. her response – a shoulder shrug, “Sorry there is nothing we can do about it it my dear and you will just have to wait for the information to come out on the 1st of May 2013. I am so sorry.”

    Why are non of the newspapers, radio stations, TV programmes picking up what is happening in education and how private providers are being killed off by our own education system?

    What do we do?

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  • #35137

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Jacqueline,

    If you send me your email address to bothabe@telkomsa.net I can let you have the documents before 1 May.

    Have the hole lot.

    Bernard

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  • #35136

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Sylvia,

    I have uploaded the docs that I think are important – these are the criteria for full accreditation and the most importnat one ; fees – the others are mostly Powerpoint presentations, etc.

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  • #35135

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Thanks Bernard – much appreciated

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  • #35134

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Thanks Lenny

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  • #35133

    Cynthia Reynders
    Participant

    Dear Bernard

    Thank you for uploading the documents and your feedbak thus far. To all private providers, a meeting will be conduced -as arranged by Bernard – on the 3rd May`13 in Pretoria at 10h00 to discuss and look at a way forward as to the Umalusi concern.

    Yes, Bernard quite right, as private providers we need to be able to share our concerns and in unity be able to come up with innovative solutions as well as assertively react on that which have severe negative impact on private eucation in S.A and I believe that APPETD is the correct organisation to channel this.

    In response to Jacqueline`s question, we most certainly intent to make this information public, watch the newspapers!

    Cynthia Reynders APPETD CEO 

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  • #35132

    Thanks for such a wonderful information guys, however, what is the situation with regard to other Setas?

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  • #35131

    Hannes Nel
    Participant

    I followed the discussions on Skills Universe and one or two other platforms about the Umalusi quality assurance process and fee structure with quite some interest. It is important that private learning institutions work together in combating threats like this one and the APPETD and people like Bernard Botha are doing what is necessary. However, “moenie worry nie” this one should be rather easy to solve, even though it will not go away by itself.

     

    The accreditation fees that Umalusi will in future charge is quite conservative compared to fees in EU Member States and probably some other countries with professional national accreditation systems in place. I, for one, would gladly pay the intended fees on condition that I receive a professional quality assurance service in return. EU Member State quality assurance bodies not only accredit (some do not accredit, they approve learning providers), they also render professional and continuous guidance and support. Can Umalusi provide such support? Not if I were to go on my experiences with them. Judging from the remarks by other private providers they are equally disappointed with even just communicating with Umalusi, let alone offering a professional service. Then again, is the CHE/HEQC doing any better? I’ve struggled with them for ten years to accredit for just a certificate; it cost me R28 000.00 which turned out to be a fruitless expenditure even though our capacity to offer the qualification is better than most public learning institutions that offer it. For example, one public learning institution has two lecturers with post-graduate qualifications offering a certain qualification; Mentornet has nine. This particular public learning institution offering the qualification purchases some of their learning materials from us.

     

    We are actually dealing with a system of education and training in which the private learning institutions do not seem to be welcome. In a media statement by the Minister of Higher Education and Training on 25 March 2013 the Minister called upon SETAs to open offices at public Further Education and Training Colleges so that public FET Colleges and public Universities of Technology will have better access to SETA services (and funds – my added remark). From what I understand the issue of granting private learning institutions government subsidies was also discussed at the Umalusi conference. The response from the speaker, I am told, was that it is not government policy to sponsor private institutions. They don’t understand that it is not the institutions they are sponsoring, it is the learners. I tried for many months, probably a couple of years to obtain accurate and corroborated figures for the subsidies that public learning institutions receive per student. The fact that I could not obtain the figures is a testimony to the lack of transparency in the education environment, and people who hide information know that what they are doing is wrong. Point is, I would not be surprised of private learning institutions are actually cheaper than public learning institutions if we were to take all the financial factors into consideration, including taxes, skills levies, public learning institutions government subsidies and what the students pay for their studies. And the Minister knows that this is the case.

    Dr Hannes Nel, Director, The Mentoring Network

     

     

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  • #35130

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Japhta,

    At present I am feeling like the man who is lying on his deathbed and saying:  Some many beautiful women and so few days left.

    The same applies here, so many tasks but so few days left!  We have extended the scope of the meeting to discuss SETA’s as well and should the need arise we will also try to have a similar session (or sessions) elsewhere.

    You can email me on bothabe@telkomsa.net to keep in touch.

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  • #35129

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Thanks Hannes.

    May I quote your opening remarks about willing to pay the accreditation fees?   The opening remarks by Umalusi about the fees did not go down well, to say the least.

    While the fees seem to be high one should really sit down and do the maths by spreading the costs over the number of learners per programme. 

    I had been fortunate enough to be part of the pilot project and while there were many hiccups and problems my personal feeling is that at least Umalusi is moving in the right direction with the new process.

    The unfortunate part is the bad launch the process received; we are now trying to work around the issues by regarding it as a ‘challenge’ that we have to find solutions for that will be beneficial to all parties.

    The ultimate solution would be if the privates were to be judged in the same way as the private providers as far a funding goes and the ultimate would be if the public colleges were subjected to the same rigour as the private colleges!

    Can we keep you on our mailing list please as we honestly need somebody of your caliber to act as mentor. 

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  • #35128

    Hannes Nel
    Participant

    Thank you for the vote of confidence. I hope I am on the APPETD address/contact list since I am a supporter and member! Regards, JPN

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  • #35127

    Cynthia Reynders
    Participant

    Thank you Hannes, yes you are a APPETD member and a very good mentor as well. Bernard good luck for Friday and APPETD support you initiative fully. As mentioned this morning to you, APPETD will include all of these discussions at our AGM.

    Please note that due to the influx of enquiries to include and extend discussions to include SETA`s and HE, I herewith announce that all of these concerns will now be discussed at the upcoming APPETD AGM on the 17th May `13. All APPETD members are herewith invited to please attend the AGM where as a constituency we will look at innovative and possible new approaches to ensure the DEFINITE growth and sustainablity of private education. Private education has been around since before the days of ancient Greeks  and we will remain and continue to play a pivatol role in educating the nation and thus ensuring a workforce that will contribute to the economic growth and employment. WE WILL NOT BECOME NULL AND VOID NO MATTER WHAT.

    APPETD members please RSVP for this very important AGM so we can decide on the way forward, all other private providers are most welcome but you have to RSVP at the APPETD office.

    Please contact Saishalia on 011 791 5463 or mail you confirmation of attendance to pr@appetd.org.za

    Yours in education

    Cynthia Reynders – APPETD CEO

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  • #35126

    Jacqueline Klem
    Participant

    Hi Cynthia

    I am not an APPETD member as we do not train in the FET arena at present. I find that your discussions and documents mostly revolve around criteria/issues/info in regards to FET Colleges. 

    It is very informative and a great source of finding out about the bombs being dropped on us, but does not assist us who are only training in the ABET (AET) field. Where can I find the Full Accreditation Instrument for ABET providers for example, as well as the implementation plan that the fees structure refer to?

    I am quite perturbed that the media has not picked up anything in regard to the adult education sector over the last SIX months – first the skills levy bomb, the issues with SETA accreditation and now the whole FET/Private Schools?ABET debate. Who and why is Minister Nzimande so protected by the media? Why has nobody mentioned that the docs are not yet available on the Umalusi sight and today is the 2nd of may already? There is this deadly silence on issues that do not only impact on private training providers, but EVERY business in this country.

    I wish you well in your discussions with the media and thank you for sharing your resources with us who are not even members of APPETD.

    Educational regards

    Jacqueline Klem

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  • #35125

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Jacqueline,

    Bernard Botha – I dabble in lots of things, among other ABET as well.  You can contact me at bothabe@telkomsa.net.

    Have you received the docs yet?  If not I will forward them to you.

    May I also break a lance for APPETD – I am fringe member, i.e. not a paid up member but I will attend to that during next week.  They are very active and have an awesome CEO in the form of Cynthia Reynders.  Since she took over the organisation has blossomed.  Have a look at their website and you will that it is not all that expensive to join them – especially if you see what you get in return.  

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  • #35124

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Hi Bernard – what a wonderful expression – “break a lance” – meaning to champion a cause.

    I wonder how many freelance facilitators on skills-universe know the origin of the term?  From the medieval jousting contests when knights rode horses and used lances – a free lance was exacting that – available to champion causes.  

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  • #35123

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Sylvia,

    Now I know why I have such a head ache.  It is my halo that is too tight!

    I wish the private providers will take off their dark glasses, see the bright light and help Cynthia – she is to say the least a formidable lady and I am sure that under her leadership APPETD will conquer many a foe.

    If I may continue on the lance theme – maybe we should call he Lady Quixote?  There is a huge difference between Don Quixote and Lady Quixote – he stormed windmills – she tackles problems head on.   

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  • #35122

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Wonderful – and you are her knight in shining armour – I think the halo will have to sit on top of the helmet – have a great day.

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  • #35121

    Alfie R Wagner
    Participant

    Bernard

    I am a staunch supporter of Cynthia and understand her passion and dedication, but let us not forget the late Dr Andries Lategen, Marietta van Rooyen, Tony Khatle, (including Cynthia) and many others that lobbied tirelessly, engaging the relevant Legal Bodies and Private Providers to promote APPETD before these troubling times. I guess that’s why it’s called “hindsight”.

    Alfie R Wagner CHRP

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  • #35120

    Bernard Botha
    Participant

    Alfie,

    To my intense regret I had never met these people, I appreciate your bringing them to our attention.

    My hope is that by increasing the awareness of APPETD and increasing its membership we that follow in their footsteps will be able to honour their legagy

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  • #35119

    Cynthia Reynders
    Participant

    Dear Alfie

    Indeed these are but just of few of the remarkable people that ensured that private education has a voice, and I am honoured to be able to continue the very important work that they initiated more than 13 years ago.

    I think of Rooksana Rajab who was the first Chairperson, Rick Edmonds who was part of APPETD from the onset, Dr. Tholsia Naidoo who like the others mentioned, have lobbied and put in many hours and still do, all for private providers. Hats off to them all!!

    Viva private education…

    Cynthia Reynders

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