Tagged: Payments; Training Providers
4th Dec 2018 at 9:15 am #68854Maphuthi SekwailaParticipant
4th Dec 2018 at 2:04 pm #68859Nishan RachpallParticipant
I also need some advice regarding this. I did some freelance training and assesing for a Training Provider at the beginning of November and I still haven’t received payment for my services. Their SLA that I signed states payment are made 14 days after submitting an invoice and returning the POE and other supporting documents. I’ve been calling their offices every working day since and all I get is the same excuse that their boss releases payments and that she is unavailable. I’m at my wits end now and I have bills to pay. Any constructive assistance will be greatly appreciated.
4th Dec 2018 at 3:56 pm #68861
4th Dec 2018 at 4:57 pm #68863Simphiwe MdikaneParticipant
4th Dec 2018 at 6:08 pm #68864RONALD WINSTON SPRINGFIELDParticipant
I refer to the discussion on ‘Payments to Training Providers’.
I need advice about what can be done about non-payment of freelancers, as I facilitated a two-day course in October 2018 and wasn’t paid the agreed fee.
The service provider apparently had a meeting with the client training management, after receiving a complaint from one of the trainees who apparently wasn’t happy with the training conducted. According to the service provider, the decision was taken at the meeting (where I wasn’t invited to state my side of the story) with the client that the training is to be rescheduled at no extra cost to the client.
I, as the subject matter expert, had done all that was required of me, taking into account the relevant unit standards when conducting the training, yet wasn’t given a hearing (audi alterim partem rule) to state my side of the story, but unceremoniously discarded without pay.
In reflection, during the training I had traveled, using my own vehicle, 80km x 2 days. I had facilitated the training course, having researched, prepared and compiled, inter alia, the following content for the course :
-108 powerpoint slides
-2 ice breakers
-4 case studies
-6 group discussions
-12 class discussions
– 1 role play
At the end of the course, the feedback from the trainee evaluations spoke to the trainees enjoying being part of the course, some giving me the top rating for a facilitator (on a scale of 1 – 4, I received a 4).
As, I have no idea which course of action to take (what is currently best practice?), and whether SAQA or the Setas have legislation in place to counteract this type of behaviour, I will appreciate it if anyone who is au fait with the current modus operandi in this regard, could please recommend a course of action for me.
Thanks in anticipation…
5th Dec 2018 at 12:38 pm #68878Zanele TshabalalaParticipant
@Ronald – You can take your case to CCMA – they are quick with these types of cases as well. @Sylvia – what about Providers who do not want Free Lancers to open their own business’s so that they can be paid into a business account. There are also providers who say we may not train or do business with other providers who are training the same unit standards as them. in other words if I specialise in First Aid I can then only do First Aid with that Provider and no others. Lastly I would like to add – when I entered this industry it was feasible, these days in this industry it seems providers are lowering their price to clients in order to secure business – at the facilitators expense, it makes no sense that there are people out there charging R1000 for Assessor course. There is just no regulation of prices and this affects the Facilitator, assessor and moderator the most. This industry is being milked cheapened and devalued.
5th Dec 2018 at 3:01 pm #68884sylvia hammondKeymaster
Thank you Ronald. In terms of our Constitutional right to Administrative Justice in PAJA you should have had an opportunity to put your side of the matter. I am not sure about CCMA – I suggest follow up further as Zanele suggests – and please let us know what you find out.
Zanele – thank you.
I have no idea why a provider would want to pay a private person rather than a company account, Maybe somebody can explain further.
If a business wants to restrict your economic activity that would require an agreement – and I would suggest a payment from them to compensate for potential lost business.
I am not sure how facilitators, assessors, moderators, etc. will be affected by the proposed QCTO changes – maybe somebody can explain further.
On the issue of price, it suggests that there are too many facilitators chasing too few jobs.
Also that there are a number of problems with private providers – I wonder whether registration with the DHET will make a difference?
6th Dec 2018 at 11:58 am #68906Simphiwe MdikaneParticipant
Zanele, as a freelancer, you belong to no one. No one can restrict your trade, unless it was stipulated in the contract. Ronald, wouldn’t a small claims court assist in this matter?
Should there be anyone with a solution, please share. I am also using freelancers and I freelance myself from time-to-time. It would help all of us.
By the way, we are still waiting for the providers’ names that did you wrong. If we don’t know them, we will fall in the same trap over and over.
6th Dec 2018 at 12:11 pm #68907Zanele TshabalalaParticipant
@Simphiwe Thank you for your response, Luckily I left the provider I was linked to for about 2 years, ever since then I have built better relationships with other providers and grown as a Freelancer.
I understand the fear that providers have with employing entrepreneurs who mostly have the same business interest as the SDP however, there are laws that protect the provider from freelancers who may pouch their material/clients or practice unethically in terms of Assessments or Moderation.
There are those SDP’s who have a sense of entitlement in the industry – they feel they own freelancers – for me it has gone as far as a provider threatening not to use my services because I could not attend meetings during the week as most times that’s when a freelancer works. I cut that relationship as well.
We live and learn from these experiences and my mission is to be the voice of freelancers and to empower those who wish to embark on this journey by sharing the experiences I have had, professionally and even financially.
14th Feb 2019 at 10:01 am #69542
I realise this is a sore point. So, I am going to set up a website to name and shame training providers that fails to pay their facilitators. However, there will be some rules applicable. Rule 1: The payment must not be in dispute due to quality of delivery or behavioral issues on the part of the facilitator. Rule 2: The audi alteram partem rule will be applied. Nobody will get blacklisted without their side of the story being heard.
If you are interested in making use of this website, let me know. Once it is set up, I will post it here.
15th Feb 2019 at 11:03 am #69553Nishan RachpallParticipant
15th Feb 2019 at 3:08 pm #69558
As a freelancer, you are regarded as an independent contractor. The CCMA will be of no use to you in this case. If the amount owed is less than R15 000, you could try the Small Claims Court. If not, the Magistrate’s Court is your only other option for amounts less than R200 000.
However, I believe that Naming and Shaming will have far better effect, even if it means ending up in court. At least you get your day in court at someone else’s expense.
It is a sickening thought to say the least. People make huge amounts of money, and use ONE person’s opinion to discard everything else.
I had a similar situation in Durban. One lady attending the course had no clue what it was about, yet, she gave me a negative rating. I mean, really? Do you not know what UIF stands for? I used a few official abbreviations in the presentation and this resulted in a 3 rating. I expect one or two delegates to “complain” about the venue, the food, the pace of presentation etc, but I think part of the problem is that the HR department just send whoever they can spare, just to get the Skills Plan audited. In my case, I do CPD training, which means that the target delegates would have already qualified as an attorney or engineer. Then they send legal secretaries or site foremen to attend, with no cooking clue. And I get blamed? Hell NO!!!
15th Feb 2019 at 7:56 pm #69561Electra NyandoroParticipant
15th Feb 2019 at 7:56 pm #69562Electra NyandoroParticipant
18th Feb 2019 at 11:02 am #69569
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