Generic QMS for aspirant training providers


Front Page Looking For… Training Service Providers Generic QMS for aspirant training providers

This topic contains 1 reply, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Lynel Farrell 2 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #27055

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    I have noticed that a lot of organisations out there in the training industry that are offering their services to help aspirant training providers compile what is commonly regarded as the most time-consuming and cumbersome part of their accreditation application, the QMS.

    These organisations are also charging exorbitant amounts of money to do so.

    Now, I may be regarded as a bit of a saboteur, but there is a very good generic QMS online, which is available and free to be used by aspirant training providers. I believe development of this QMS was funded by the SDF? 

    However, I cannot find the link anymore, but I have the documents saved on my PC.

    If you are interested in acquiring this generic QMS (keep in mind that you have to customise it to meet your own requirements) then please email me at dave@competitiveedge.co.za

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  • #27075

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    Good Day Dave, did you mean this QMS Template: http://www.fpmseta.org.za/downloads/Generic_QMS_Template_Nov_2012.doc

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  • #27074

    MillieRasekoala
    Participant

    Hi Dave, I provide the accreditation service and you are right that to a large extent the policies are generic.  However the service I provide is basically as follows

    Development of QMS including HR and Performance management policies

    Sourcing of assessors, moderators and facilitators and contracting of the said practitioners which is often a nightmare and time consuming.

    Development of the business plan

    assisting the client to source the materials and checking the alignment as well as cleaning it up if the material has mistakes etc. Sometimes the developers take too long to respond to some of these challenges.

    compiling all the compliance documents, printing of materials and compliance documents

    submitting the application to the SETA,

    Following up on the progress which is again a nightmare,

    preparing the client for the site visit which includes checking and advising on the premises and ensuring there is readiness.

    Facilitating remediation if it is needed

    Being present at the site visit in an SDF capacity

    Following up after site visit.

    I also ensure that I transfer knowledge to the client as I go along and even after they receive accreditation I ensure that whatever new information comes I share with them.  Another source of information I share with them is this platform so that they are kept abreast of all debates etc.

    The accreditation process is time consuming, frustrating and costly. I have considered stopping the service because what I charge and what we do often do not make sense. There are number of clients that we do this for free because we know they cannot afford it and the only thing they pay for is printing when it is needed. We also break our fee into tranches so we literally get paid for the last tranch when the client receives their accreditation letter.  There are some clients that we also advise to do it themselves if they really want to.

    Anyway I just thought I should shed some light on this.

    Thanks

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  • #27073

    Hi,

    At MABIMI we do exactly the same. We do not compromise our price to the extend where it becomes ridiculous.

    I do however feel that information given must be for the greater good to the industry. We do concentrate on the positive and not let temptation to free products be the cause of more chaos.

    Thanks

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  • #27072

    Renee’ McGibbon
    Participant

    Hi Dave,

    I also offer accreditation services similar to those offered by Millie. It took me two years to develop a QMS with implementation tools. My QMS is intended to assist and guide training providers in the actually running an organisation that provides training and assessment services in accordance with best practices. My QMS is by no means what I call a “statement of intent” in that all it achieves is a summary of what quality management functions the provider “intends” implementing, merely to appease the requirements of the ETQA’s. It is actually a set of documents intended to guide providers in consistently operating the various managerial functions in a world class organisation. Anyone can “copy and paste” a QMS from the internet, but this will certainly not produce effective results in the long run. By effective results, I mean learners who have received the best possible skills training and development from a well managed and truly quality assured training provider.

    I apologise if I sound a little angry, but it is this “copy and paste” and “window dressing” mentality just to appease the powers that be for the sole purpose of getting accreditation, without the actual intent of implementing effective systems and providing meaningful training that will inevitably cost our country dearly in terms of producing people who still don’t have the skills and competencies required to be effective in the workplace. 

    Training and Education practices should, first and foremost, be about the best interests of the learner and providing the best service possible to them.

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  • #27071

    Tass Schwab
    Participant

    I just want to say YES and YES to Renee and Millie. Its more than just the document, I find that new service providers are often at a loss as to the entire training environment. What Marie Smith and I do is a genuine consult and loads of hand holding with regards to the things that the client must get in place and source. Its not just the QMS. Our service goes way beyond that – the intention being that we see a new Training Service provider well set to welcome the learners in, create hope and possibilities. 

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  • #27070

    Tass,Renee and Millie I am an aspirant service provider struggling to get this document QMS. For how much do you charge for this document alone. I intend applying for accreditation with the Services seta.

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  • #27069

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo Lynel,

    Yes, that’s the one! Glad you found it, now it will be accessible to all.

    Thanks

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  • #27068

    Tass Schwab
    Participant

    Hello, I don’t think any of us sell this document. This is a coaching process more than anything to assist you in obtaining what you must obtain and we also have tasks to do in order to ready you for submission. Its a co creative process. Pass us your email so that each of us can mail you and you can decide who to use! 

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  • #27067

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Halo Manus,

    Thanks for your input, but may I ask you to elaborate on “not let temptation to free products be the cause of more chaos.”?

    Kind regards,

    Dave

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  • #27066

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo Millie,

    I realise that organisations that offer their turnkey accreditation services go far beyond just the compilation of a QMS in getting their customers accreditation approved.

    The reason why I posted my initial message is because there are many aspirant training providers out their that do not have the financial resources to pay an organisation such as yours to fulfill this function and invariably their biggest stumbling block is the QMS.

    Kind regards,

    Dave 

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  • #27065

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Halo Renee,

    Thank you for your input.

    Just to advise….the Generic QMS that I mentioned is not just ANY QMS that might be available on the internet. My organisations QMS is ISO 90001? aligned but in my opinion, the generic QMS mentioned in my post is much more user-friendly than my QMS, for which I paid a veritable fortune back in 2005.

    Kind regards,

    Dave

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  • #27064

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo Tass,

    Please refer my response to Millie above.

    Kind regards,

    Dave

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  • #27063

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo all who responded,

    The reason why I have decided to make this user-friendly generic QMS freely accessible is because of:

    PRICE • R17 100.00 (incl. VAT) • R150 to deliver per address

    This is from the website of an organisation that sells QMS’s, and QMS’s ONLY.

    Now, a free economy gives anybody the right to run their business to the best of their ability, within the constraints of the laws of the country, but really, that price is obscene!

    Regards,

    Dave

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  • #27062

    Hi Dave,

    I’ve been in the industry for a few years now and we actually started to help emerging providers through the accreditation process together with our QMS. As Millie and others explained, a process can become really difficult if you want to assist providers correctly from the start. Over the years the number of people selling a QMS increased and the price for a set of documents dropped considerably. Most of them didn’t care about the emerging provider to actually succeed by providing quality training. By giving advice on where to get a free QMS without the proper guidance on how to implement it have a negative impact on the industry as a whole. If the option is there to get a working document for free, it will definitely let the emerging provider take the chance to save some money. There are good consultants out there that have the ability to guide emerging providers but because the option is always there to get something as important as a QMS for free, they will go for the easy and cheapest way out. Nothing is for free and the cheapest way can become not so cheap in the long term with negative consequences. Respect the consultants out there that can make a difference and make a living by providing a good service with their QMS’s.

    We do learning material development as well, and the same applies. There are free learning material out there but not all implement training the same way. Please do not let the few consultants that are there that still focus on quality be destroyed by free products out there.

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  • #27061

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo Manus,

    How much does your organisation charge for a QMS?

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  • #27060

    Tass Schwab
    Participant

    Thank you Dave.

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  • #27059

    Dave,

    I only responded to give my view from a consultant/learning material developer point of view. We used to sell our QMS for R35 000 where it dropped to R12 500/R 10 500. And we are competing with prices as low as R3 500 and less. We always include extra services to assist with processes. When our price was on R35 000, we came across providers who paid R70 000/R80 000 and the consultant were supposed to help with the process. Transport and accommodation excluded and the providers still did not get approved. It is good to know what is happening out there. Free economy has its boundaries also. On a lighter tone – you have just given some emerging providers a competitive edge and I might come across some of them in the future to assist them with something else.

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  • #27058

    Dave Muir
    Participant

    Hallo Manus,

    In 2005 I paid something like R25,000 for my QMS? In those days I could still (sort of) afford it, but with the shrinking training market and a recession to cope with today……

    The other issue that some seem to have is that I am providing emerging/aspirant training providers with a free generic QMS without any guidance as to how apply the contents. That might be true to a certain extent, but what must be kept in mind is that this is a generic template. The emerging/aspirant training provider HAS TO go through the ENTIRE document in order to customise it to meet their specific requirements. 

    It is not as if I am saying “Here is a free QMS. Submit it for approval with all the other requirements for accreditation.”

    Thanks for your input! Maybe if I was not close to retirement I might not have been as generous as I have been!

    Regards,

    Dave

    PS: I am not giving it to any of my potential competitors….I hope! (Even though it’s freely available on the internet).

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  • #27057

    Thanks for the discussion. Always good to know what is available out there. Made a note myself.

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  • #27056

    Lynel Farrell
    Participant

    My pleasure, I hope it helps. 

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