About Time to Change Your Mind


This topic contains 31 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Skills Universe 8 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #5297

    Jacomien De Klerk
    Participant

    As more and more training providers, SDFs and HRs return to work and start clearing their Inboxes, the full implications of the new SETA funding regulations are starting to become eye-wateringly clear. It seems also that the overwhelming reaction is worry, and fear, and panic. With good reason, of course, but still maybe not entirely productive.

    I think it is time to adjust our thinking, and I believe the new regulations is just the jolt we all need to get out of some very dangerous trends that have been developing over the last 10 years. Yes, the SETA-managed SDL levy/grant system has made more funding available for skills development since its inception and it has created learning opportunities for a great many who would otherwise have had to do without, but it has come at a cost way beyond 1% of the payroll – it has cost us direction and clear thinking in skills development. Let me make the following statements, and you see what you think:

    • The SETA is not your customer – employers are
    • SETAs and the QCTO do not need 25 million skilled workers – employers do
    • SETAs, SGBs and the QCTO do not know what makes a worker skilled – employers do
    • DHET might determine funding priorities, but they do not determine learning priorities – employers do

    So how about we start listening and responding to our customers again.

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  • #5318

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    For those who missed the Regulations in December, you can find them in the Group Skills Development Facilitators on this link:

    Seta Grant Regulations

    or in the Downloads section:

    Download section

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  • #5317

    Anonymous

    Wise words again, but as usual it wont help us.

    We will have 1million discussions on this topic and nothing will come from it. Sometimes I wonder if anyone from the SETA’s or the QCTO ever read these discussions. (Read and actually doing something about it)

    Welcome to South Africa.

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  • #5316

    Jacomien De Klerk
    Participant

    Ezra, my argument is that it is no use waiting for the SETA or the QCTO to change their ways – it is service providers that need to rethink and change theirs.

    What if you had to develop a business plan purely to deliver the skills development services they need to your customers, ignoring all red herrings (and ministers)?

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  • #5315

    Marlene Burden
    Participant

    Jacomien

     

    This is the best words I have read on the skills universe for a very long time. It is so important these days to focus our energy on the right things. Being in the skills development arena for 12 years now, one thing keeps coming back to you… your customer. Employers have a desperate need to be supported and advised by positive, enthusiastic, passionate skills development experts.  Thank you for showing your guts.

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  • #36109

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    The SETAs were unaware of these Grant Regulation changes, they were just as surprised when their skills plans were rejected in December and they were told by letter “to comply with the new regulations” and to have new skills plans ready by today, 15 January.  SETAs are also now expected to financially support the QCTO.  The new Regulations make no provision for comments or a consultative process and it repeals two previous Regulations.  We need to do something about this, we cannot merely accept it and carry on – this is business as unusual.  We have to put our heads together on how and who are going to speak out on these changes.

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  • #43117

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    The SETAs were unaware of these Grant Regulation changes, they were just as surprised when their skills plans were rejected in December and they were told by letter “to comply with the new regulations” and to have new skills plans ready by today, 15 January.  SETAs are also now expected to financially support the QCTO.  The new Regulations make no provision for comments or a consultative process and it repeals two previous Regulations.  We need to do something about this, we cannot merely accept it and carry on – this is business as unusual.  We have to put our heads together on how and who are going to speak out on these changes.

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  • #44158

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    The SETAs were unaware of these Grant Regulation changes, they were just as surprised when their skills plans were rejected in December and they were told by letter “to comply with the new regulations” and to have new skills plans ready by today, 15 January.  SETAs are also now expected to financially support the QCTO.  The new Regulations make no provision for comments or a consultative process and it repeals two previous Regulations.  We need to do something about this, we cannot merely accept it and carry on – this is business as unusual.  We have to put our heads together on how and who are going to speak out on these changes.

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  • #5314

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    The SETAs were unaware of these Grant Regulation changes, they were just as surprised when their skills plans were rejected in December and they were told by letter “to comply with the new regulations” and to have new skills plans ready by today, 15 January.  SETAs are also now expected to financially support the QCTO.  The new Regulations make no provision for comments or a consultative process and it repeals two previous Regulations.  We need to do something about this, we cannot merely accept it and carry on – this is business as unusual.  We have to put our heads together on how and who are going to speak out on these changes.

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  • #19449

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    The SETAs were unaware of these Grant Regulation changes, they were just as surprised when their skills plans were rejected in December and they were told by letter “to comply with the new regulations” and to have new skills plans ready by today, 15 January.  SETAs are also now expected to financially support the QCTO.  The new Regulations make no provision for comments or a consultative process and it repeals two previous Regulations.  We need to do something about this, we cannot merely accept it and carry on – this is business as unusual.  We have to put our heads together on how and who are going to speak out on these changes.

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  • #5313

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Christine your comment is interesting.  They published a draft regulation and asked for consultation on that.  Then they published as final something new and very different with very different implications. 

    The question is: why wasn’t the new revised – very different – regulation not published for comment?  In terms of our Constitutional rights in our law-making process – is this legally correct?

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  • #5312

    Ian Webster
    Participant

    Very good points, thanks Jacomien.

    There are many training and development interventions out there that add great value, but don’t fit the DOHE funding priorities. We don’t have to change the priorities. Our job (whether we are internal or external) is to persuade employers of the value we can add, and make sure we can deliver.

    Thanks,

    Ian

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  • #5311

    Anonymous

    Maybe they should involved skills-universe in the future as we see more involvement here. Interesting point of Christine above. Now how do you implement a process like this if you haven’t involved the SETA’s or the Employers?

    We should get a discussion forum on Skills-universe for every SETA, to consolidate the discussions and create a petition for stuff like this. They must revise if enough people sign. Interesting points.

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  • #5310

    It is refreshing to finally hear a marketing approach – that is, identify the target market and then determine needs and wants – not the reverse of making assumptions – thank you!

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  • #36108

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Due to the controversial new stipulations in the Grant Regulations (Gov Notice R990), another draft debatable version would have been fair – as noticed by our SDF Forum.  It is not a fair process and it cannot be legal.

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  • #43116

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Due to the controversial new stipulations in the Grant Regulations (Gov Notice R990), another draft debatable version would have been fair – as noticed by our SDF Forum.  It is not a fair process and it cannot be legal.

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  • #44157

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Due to the controversial new stipulations in the Grant Regulations (Gov Notice R990), another draft debatable version would have been fair – as noticed by our SDF Forum.  It is not a fair process and it cannot be legal.

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  • #5309

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Due to the controversial new stipulations in the Grant Regulations (Gov Notice R990), another draft debatable version would have been fair – as noticed by our SDF Forum.  It is not a fair process and it cannot be legal.

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  • #19448

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Due to the controversial new stipulations in the Grant Regulations (Gov Notice R990), another draft debatable version would have been fair – as noticed by our SDF Forum.  It is not a fair process and it cannot be legal.

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  • #5308

    Jacomien De Klerk
    Participant

    BUSA has come out very strongly against the regulations, and there are various other organisations that, I am sure, will be verifying whether they are legal or not. My advice is to make your voice heard through organised pressure groups you belong to.

    Now, leaving aside things we cannot do much about, what will you do about your business? And your customers?

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  • #36107

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Thank you for wise words,many SDF’s i know loose the plot and thus do not service employers properly.Our business plans should be looking at finding best solutions for employers so that employees and organisation can benefit fully on skills development thus contributing to the country at large,it all starts with us HR practitioners.

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  • #43115

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Thank you for wise words,many SDF’s i know loose the plot and thus do not service employers properly.Our business plans should be looking at finding best solutions for employers so that employees and organisation can benefit fully on skills development thus contributing to the country at large,it all starts with us HR practitioners.

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  • #44156

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Thank you for wise words,many SDF’s i know loose the plot and thus do not service employers properly.Our business plans should be looking at finding best solutions for employers so that employees and organisation can benefit fully on skills development thus contributing to the country at large,it all starts with us HR practitioners.

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  • #5307

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Thank you for wise words,many SDF’s i know loose the plot and thus do not service employers properly.Our business plans should be looking at finding best solutions for employers so that employees and organisation can benefit fully on skills development thus contributing to the country at large,it all starts with us HR practitioners.

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  • #19447

    Skills Universe
    Keymaster

    Thank you for wise words,many SDF’s i know loose the plot and thus do not service employers properly.Our business plans should be looking at finding best solutions for employers so that employees and organisation can benefit fully on skills development thus contributing to the country at large,it all starts with us HR practitioners.

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  • #5306

    I agree Mlamuli!

     

    We should be finding ways to meet our client’s needs (as Jacomien pointed out) and THEN look at how many of the SETA and QCTO’s requirements are met by our solutions.

     

    It is scary how “ticking the boxes” blinds us!

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  • #5305

    I agree SETA and QCTO’s do have there own advantage but with the change in phase there is a NEED 
    to Change Your Mind as rightly quoted by Jacomien De Klerk to deliver solutions based on CLIENT CENTRIC. If not then T&D professional will hamper organizational business directing to faster, efficient and innovative delivery.

    After all by the end of business we need Return on investment (ROI).

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  • #5304

    Jared Shippel
    Participant

    Thans for the article Jacomien. It is a reality that so many training providers find themselves in, and one which has created a huge number of insolvencies within the industry in the past year. The points that you raise are completely valid and true, yet in my experience there is one overwhelming issue that is hard to overcome and to which I would welcome suggestions and collaborations – the employers, our clients, seem to only want to fund training from the SETA grants.

    I have been working on a way to make this more attractive to employers and have tried selling this to them, but in all honesty it has been incredibly challenging even entertaining a discussion that does not include the provision of grant funding from the relevant SETA.

    The companies I have spoken with do conduct training, but due to the tightening of financial belts many of the ones I have approached run training internally and require funding to conduct any additional training they do. In some cases this means that smaller providers are competing with far larger ones who have been around for in the region of 15 to 20 years and who have established contracts with employers, which places an additional challenge for many smaller providers.

    A case in point was when I went to visit a potential client with a warm lead into that client. The client currently runs large scale learnerships and this was literally a no-go area as they have a contracted provider who they prefer to work with. The purpose of the meeting was, therefore, to implement short courses and programmes that could make a real different to the client. This was discussed and understood. The client was excited by the proposed solution and I was asked to provide a quotation. When I provided this to the client, which is a large multinational, they came back saying that it was too expensive and they were willing to pay a far lower rate for a one-day pilot. I always look for an opportunity to create a relationship with a client and so agreed with the proviso that I could get ongoing work from that client. The client immediately asked what my BBBEE rating is and when I mentioned that I am a white-owned Exempt Micro Enterprise (NQF 4) I was told that they required a minimum of Level 3 so no ongoing work could be expected. This effectively killed the possibility of doing work with the company, which had been so excited by the learning and development solutions that I had proposed.

    It is this ongoing challenge that has me gravely concerned about the state of learning and development within South Africa in general. Companies are training for the wrong reasons and despite the fact that they are the client, it is expected that external training will be bankrolled by the SETAs, with whom I have experienced incredibly slow payments  and other challenges.

    Where does this leave us as training and development providers? Is there a future for this within the current South African context? How have you and other providers you know overcome these challenges? Please let me know as this has left me jaded and highly concerned.

     

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  • #5303

    TRACEY MCLENNAN
    Participant

    Thanks for your postive post – sometimes we get so focused on a problem we don’t see the other options.  but I do have questions if anyone can answer.

    The Setas dont seem to know about the changes or how to implement them so when do we change the submission of WSP date – is it still June 2013 (according to the SETA it is?)

    When do the clients start getting back their 20% madatory from 2014 or after June 2013?

    How will the pivitol grant work – can the company claim this to do training in their industry and use the grant for training at any training provider or only at a FET college?

    Sorry this may be clear in the regulations, but can someone clarify it to me.

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  • #5302

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Hi Tracey – the one thing that is very clear in the Regulations is the submission dates, as follows:

    • Mandatory grants must be submitted by 30 June 2013, (a Seta may grant an extension for a maximum of a month subject to a written request of a levy paying employer)
    • from 1 April 2014, the mandatory grant documents must be submitted by 30 April each year.

    As the regulations are effective from 1 April 2013, the 20%  should commence from this 2013 year and must be paid quarterly.

    Less clear are the answers to your other questions – but here goes as best I understand:

    Before responding to queries on PIVOTAL grants the regulations require the Setas to prepare their SSP and an APP (Annual Performance Plan) with the DHET.  They must have a Discretionary Grants Policy specific to their sector, they must include how PIVOTAL programmes “can” be delivered through public institutions. 

    They must prepare and distribute grant application and project proposal forms and ensure national access by: legal persons or enterprises of different sizes (including small and micro enterprises, NGOs and cooperatives. They must be able to participate in any type of skills development programme that falls within the Seta Discretionary Grants Policy.  80% of the discretionary funds must go to PIVOTAL and 20% may go to non-PIVOTAL. 

    There will be lesser requirements on completion of PIVOTAL training plans for those employing less than 50.

    So once each SETA has their Discretionary Grant Policy for their sector, we will be clearer.  

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  • #5301

    TRACEY MCLENNAN
    Participant

    Sylvia thank you so much for this information, would I be correct in assuming that the pivotal grant policy would been to be in place before May so that we can take that into account when doing the WSP?

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  • #5300

    sylvia hammond
    Keymaster

    Tracey – from what I can understand, where a Seta already has a good implementation history with discretionary grants – like the Foodbev Seta for example – not that much will change.  In fact it seems to me that the companies who are implementing will most likely see a greater benefit.

    Let me give an some examples:

    PIVOTAL grants lead to qualifications or part qualifications, therefore learnerships, apprenticeships, bursary programmes and in-service training (required to achieve a qualification) will still all count.  But because the Seta will need to make sure that they reach the 80% towards these things, you will find that they’ve increased the amount paid per annum.  So with Foodbev for example it will be a set Rand amount for an apprenticeship for example – a Rand amount per each of 3 years required.

    Skills programmes that form part of a qualification will also count provided that they meet the registration requirements, and are formally assessed and moderated, and so on – or they could form part of the 20%.

    They will also still have the 20% funding available for items not leading to a qualification – like a diversity programme or an aids awareness programme.

    Of course where the Seta isn’t organised and doesn’t have this good history of discretionary grant implementation and funding it may be more difficult.

    So if we see it simply as a move of focus towards formal qualifications and part qualifications (registered on SAQA) then we can see that it increases the formality requiring assessment and moderation and achievement of credits for employees.  The upside for employers is that there is more money available – and they can include it in their B-BBEE scorecard.

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  • #5299

    TRACEY MCLENNAN
    Participant

    Thanks Sylvia – I understand a lot better now.

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  • #5298

    Thanks Sylvia, much appreciated!

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One thought on “About Time to Change Your Mind

  • John Ecclestone

    Hi everyone! I am now sitting in Taiwan due to in part the bureaucratic processes involved in registration.

    As far as I am concerend a private body, irrespective of what is happening in the government circles (requirements and all), should be evaluating our training material.

    In all my years in South Africa, and there are many people here who are older and wiser than I, I have never ever seen such incompetence in our governement departments – one or two may be lucky to escape my generalization here, but especially in the environment in which we are working.

    As Zerelde has said, submission after submission, expense upon expense and it does not always end there.

    I for one don’t have the money to sit around and wait in hope that a programme will eventually be approved down the line, especially not as a small scale provider.

    I sometimes wonder too what the qualification is of the person who is ‘assessing’ and then accrediting us as training providers.

    I realise that ‘fly by night’ providers and unscrupulous ones have to be curtailed and stopped.

    Is the government really concerned about us? We work and start businesses to make money and put food on the tables for our families.

    They have messed up the process in schools, the Defence Force is now snowed under with paperwork, the instructors need to be ETDP certified, whereas the Methods of Instuction Course which I did when doing my national service – a 4 week programme on facilitation was way ahead of what I see today. The defence force has always presented programmes based on outcomes.

    Those of you in the group who served during the national service era will know that everything was outcomes based. Now the process, which has worked for years, gets changed and all instructors must be ETDP qualified before they may present training. Their is such a backlog that in a few years time those that are young enough to still have the old qualification (37+ years of age) are also going to be out of the system.

    Just another example of a perfectly good system that has been changed because it must be changed, not a change for the good.

    A professional body, appointed by peers not government, that will act as a controlling authority with elected professionals who can deliver the service is what is required.

    Shoot me if I am incorrect but we have to take drastic measures as this has been going on for too long in our environment.

     

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