Training Material Developers not honouring agreements
What can one do if training material developers post on Skills Universe that they have ready alligned material for sale with all guides, POE,memos available. They get paid and almost two months later they still did not deliver. I thought that this is a profesional site with professionals who are able to honour agreements.
Any suggestions
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Helene Strauss on -
I suppose the same would apply as to the discussion held previously on training providers who do not pay: we should have a site where we can name and shame, as those of us who do deliver a professional service would not liked to be tarred with the same brush as those who do not. A suggestion is to ask for references from ANYONE with whom you do business and then to actually contact the referees.
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Permalink Reply by Tessa Oosthuizen on -
.Sorry to hear about your experience - not all of us are unprofessional.In future I advise you to only pay a 50% deposit and then the rest on delivery. This may motivate them.....
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Permalink Reply by Tricia Jones on -
EEK! If I was you - I'd let everyone else know who the material developers are so that no one else gets caught out by them!
And maybe in future arrange for payment on delivery.
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Permalink Reply by Bianca - Anne P Moll on -
I am having basically the same problem but it is more the Training Providers I am struggling with to honor our agreements. They will commission me to do the work for their accreditation application and I do request a deposit but sometimes I am a bit to assisting and then agree to a much lesser amount, in the end the Files is delivered to the Seta, no way to stop the process, Accreditation is awarded and I have not been paid. I have legal binding documents and agreements but it is still so hard to force it down. Currently I am sitting with so much bad debt of Providers that did not pay, that I am feeling so frustrated.
I also suggest a site where we name them and shame them but somehow I believe if they did not pay for their accreditation or courseware, are they really willing to go the miles for Education and Training if they do this - what training will they really provide - then they are actually abusers of the system.
The seta's feel it is not part of their problems. I even when I withdraw my documents the Seta still went and accredited the company. I am also tired of this. I don't know what to do.
Recently a Seta worked with a Consultant to do their ETQA and when I saw my files again, I knew she has copied my documents and even removed some documents. Theft and plagarism but what can I really do. They have the contract with ETQA of the SETA and even when they get paid they still get the Providers to pay them for courseware - dubble dipping and we the honest Consultants is paying a price. I don't know.
I now believe in a 60% deposit but when commissioning their must be at least an agreement with both parties having copies of the Companies Registration forms, Tax clearance Certificate and then the 40% in payment terms but it is still hard to force down.
Their is so many "skelms" out there.
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Permalink Reply by Tricia Jones on
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Bianca, you are not alone! I currently have laywers serving legal letters which have eventuated into summons being issued due to training providers not honouring their agreements!
What happened to the whole "Quality Assurance" part of this whole thing! The seta's have so much on their plate and are usually under resourced to give a damn and that leaves us in the dwang!
I reckon that maybe us as specialist resources should make it that much more difficult for them to benefit from our services and request ridiculous payment terms upfront so that atleast our interests are protected! After all - if we don't - who will???
Bianca - Anne P Moll said:I am having basically the same problem but it is more the Training Providers I am struggling with to honor our agreements. They will commission me to do the work for their accreditation application and I do request a deposit but sometimes I am a bit to assisting and then agree to a much lesser amount, in the end the Files is delivered to the Seta, no way to stop the process, Accreditation is awarded and I have not been paid. I have legal binding documents and agreements but it is still so hard to force it down. Currently I am sitting with so much bad debt of Providers that did not pay, that I am feeling so frustrated.
I also suggest a site where we name them and shame them but somehow I believe if they did not pay for their accreditation or courseware, are they really willing to go the miles for Education and Training if they do this - what training will they really provide - then they are actually abusers of the system.
The seta's feel it is not part of their problems. I even when I withdraw my documents the Seta still went and accredited the company. I am also tired of this. I don't know what to do.
Recently a Seta worked with a Consultant to do their ETQA and when I saw my files again, I knew she has copied my documents and even removed some documents. Theft and plagarism but what can I really do. They have the contract with ETQA of the SETA and even when they get paid they still get the Providers to pay them for courseware - dubble dipping and we the honest Consultants is paying a price. I don't know.
I now believe in a 60% deposit but when commissioning their must be at least an agreement with both parties having copies of the Companies Registration forms, Tax clearance Certificate and then the 40% in payment terms but it is still hard to force down.
Their is so many "skelms" out there.
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Permalink Reply by Bianca - Anne P Moll on
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What is really sad is that one company got their Accreditation Status three weeks after I submitted their Application, the Site visit was done and everything in a period of Three weeks. I am quite chaff with myself but the down side is, I did not get paid for it. I gave them everything and made everything 100% for the Site Visit, everything I put in place, I wrote their Company Profile, I even wrote them a Operational Plan with many additional documents, I did not charge them. In the end they got their Accreditation. I got no payment. Now I must apply somewhere for them for funding so that I can get paid. I feel so angry. Summons, Lawyers costs extra. I do believe the SETA's should be able to assist us but they will not, currently they are running after reaching targets before March 2011. I don't know if even SAQA can assist us. Like one company I know that they can't proceed with Training, they don't even have anything in place, everything is just on paper but they were accredited, and I do question that? I feel so ANGRY!
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Permalink Reply by Ebeth on -
I really think that Allan must consider a Name and shame site. I am giving the developer till tomorow and have the intent of naming them anyway.
Bianca - Anne P Moll said:What is really sad is that one company got their Accreditation Status three weeks after I submitted their Application, the Site visit was done and everything in a period of Three weeks. I am quite chaff with myself but the down side is, I did not get paid for it. I gave them everything and made everything 100% for the Site Visit, everything I put in place, I wrote their Company Profile, I even wrote them a Operational Plan with many additional documents, I did not charge them. In the end they got their Accreditation. I got no payment. Now I must apply somewhere for them for funding so that I can get paid. I feel so angry. Summons, Lawyers costs extra. I do believe the SETA's should be able to assist us but they will not, currently they are running after reaching targets before March 2011. I don't know if even SAQA can assist us. Like one company I know that they can't proceed with Training, they don't even have anything in place, everything is just on paper but they were accredited, and I do question that? I feel so ANGRY!
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Sharpe on -
I think the SETAs should take note of non-payment issues. Criteria for accreditation include financial viability. If providers of any of the components of skills development cannot or will not meet their basic contractual obligations they should have their accreditation revoked. Only the SETAs can do that. It's very simple; appoint a conflict mediator within the SETA office to whom one can escalate such complaints. That individual demands a response from the alleged offender. If there is no evidence from the offender which could justify withholding payment, withdraw accreditation/registration etc. Otherwise advise the complaining party to seek other remedies.
Tricia Jones said:Bianca, you are not alone! I currently have laywers serving legal letters which have eventuated into summons being issued due to training providers not honouring their agreements!
What happened to the whole "Quality Assurance" part of this whole thing! The seta's have so much on their plate and are usually under resourced to give a damn and that leaves us in the dwang!
I reckon that maybe us as specialist resources should make it that much more difficult for them to benefit from our services and request ridiculous payment terms upfront so that atleast our interests are protected! After all - if we don't - who will???
Bianca - Anne P Moll said:I am having basically the same problem but it is more the Training Providers I am struggling with to honor our agreements. They will commission me to do the work for their accreditation application and I do request a deposit but sometimes I am a bit to assisting and then agree to a much lesser amount, in the end the Files is delivered to the Seta, no way to stop the process, Accreditation is awarded and I have not been paid. I have legal binding documents and agreements but it is still so hard to force it down. Currently I am sitting with so much bad debt of Providers that did not pay, that I am feeling so frustrated.
I also suggest a site where we name them and shame them but somehow I believe if they did not pay for their accreditation or courseware, are they really willing to go the miles for Education and Training if they do this - what training will they really provide - then they are actually abusers of the system.
The seta's feel it is not part of their problems. I even when I withdraw my documents the Seta still went and accredited the company. I am also tired of this. I don't know what to do.
Recently a Seta worked with a Consultant to do their ETQA and when I saw my files again, I knew she has copied my documents and even removed some documents. Theft and plagarism but what can I really do. They have the contract with ETQA of the SETA and even when they get paid they still get the Providers to pay them for courseware - dubble dipping and we the honest Consultants is paying a price. I don't know.
I now believe in a 60% deposit but when commissioning their must be at least an agreement with both parties having copies of the Companies Registration forms, Tax clearance Certificate and then the 40% in payment terms but it is still hard to force down.
Their is so many "skelms" out there.
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Permalink Reply by Bianca - Anne P Moll on
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Currently the Seta's have no such system in place.
They told me that their first resonsiblity is towards their Training Providers - we as consultants must sort out our own things. I think the capacity currently within the Seta's makes this difficult.
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Permalink Reply by John Ecclestone on -
Dear Material Developers,
I don't see anyone here, and this is just a thought, who has their material copyrighted and then sells it to their clients who then present the courses - under licence. As a PSIRA registered provider (also registered with SASSETA) we purchase material for our distance learning courses and submit back to the company we purchased from. Our instructors are accredited with the relevant organizations in order for us to be able to purchase the material. In terms of material I think that you should ask for their accreditation status and SETA registration numbers, check that they have initial registration and then do application for extension of scope for the business. In terms of payment 60% deposit and then when ready to submit the balance must be paid before submission. That way the material at least is still in your hands. The company that developed my material worked like that and only supplied part pdf files as samples of the work. They reported on progress on a weekly basis and showed progress on their computer.
Final docs were handed over hard copy and electronic format once final payment was made.
As for companies seeking accreditation I agree that they should be financially sound before doing application. If we assist a person with application we request a minimum of R10,000 for starting the process, together with this they have to deliver the necessary documention in order for us to start the process.
Just a few thoughts on the matter of non payment - we also do not hand over anything before payment has been made.
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Permalink Reply by Bianca - Anne P Moll on
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Hi John & Everyone,
I agree. From now on I will also wok on 60% deposit and then payment of the last 40% before I submit to the applicable Seta. I have Service Level Agreements, and Payment Schedule documents in place but it is never adhere to after I have submitted the application to the applicable Seta. Maybe it is my own fault, I was to soft and it cost me dearly. But if we do this together, and all consultants adapt this payment way, I think we will at least get paid for what is due to us.
With courseware development the same principle of payment method. Don't deliver until payment has commenced otherwise troubles.
Those companies that actually then cheat the clients, we can look at ways to shame them. Normally it is the corrupt that cheat, and the honest consultants that are being cheated again.
I believe the companies should obtain Copyright rights as soon as possible on their Courseware.
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Permalink Reply by Bennie Kahler-Venter on -
There should be clauses to the agreement making it known that copyrights stay with the developer of the material until full payment, usage could then be stopped through copyright abuse, not sure about the process but could be an option.
Bianca - Anne P Moll said:What is really sad is that one company got their Accreditation Status three weeks after I submitted their Application, the Site visit was done and everything in a period of Three weeks. I am quite chaff with myself but the down side is, I did not get paid for it. I gave them everything and made everything 100% for the Site Visit, everything I put in place, I wrote their Company Profile, I even wrote them a Operational Plan with many additional documents, I did not charge them. In the end they got their Accreditation. I got no payment. Now I must apply somewhere for them for funding so that I can get paid. I feel so angry. Summons, Lawyers costs extra. I do believe the SETA's should be able to assist us but they will not, currently they are running after reaching targets before March 2011. I don't know if even SAQA can assist us. Like one company I know that they can't proceed with Training, they don't even have anything in place, everything is just on paper but they were accredited, and I do question that? I feel so ANGRY!
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