Training Companies that don't pay

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Permalink Reply by Thando Majola on December 4, 2009 at 16:20

Hi Dennis. I know exactly what you are talking about. I did work for a very reputable company in June and am still waiting for payment. The initial agreement was payment will be made on submission of invoice accompanying by training and assessment reports. When that was done. I sent through my invoice and was told payment will be through before the end of the week. After constant querying, I was told that according to company policy, invoices are paid after 3 months and guess what, the three months has passed and here I am, still waiting...

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Comninos on December 4, 2009 at 22:17

Thanks for the reply Thando - the problem is what to do about it. I am serious about naming and shaming the companies we are talking about. I think it is about time that the independent facilitators take a stand. I must admit that it is the first time that I have heard of a 90 day policy - I think they are taking a chance.

Regards

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Comninos on December 5, 2009 at 6:07

You are right Sadie. I think it is the low response is because of the weekend and time of year. Regarding the solution, I agree it is not easy but we somehow need to address it. There should be a way to warn independent facilitators of the "dangers" of taking work from certain companies. When a company finds that it cannot get facilitators, then it might mend its policies or way of doing business. It might help to alleviate abuse of the facilitators but, like everything else, how do we prevent facilitators for abusing innocent companies?

Let's get innovative........

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Walker on December 7, 2009 at 8:54

I agree, let's name them so we can all be aware of who to trust and who is defaulting on a regular basis.
Not sure what the legal implications are though.
Imagine naming someone who isn't a defaulter ...

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Permalink Reply by Helene Strauss on December 7, 2009 at 9:04

Hi Everyone

Indeed it was the weekend, as I would have replied with unseemly haste had I seen this post before. I have been burnt, too, and the problem is, once you have delivered the training or the training material, there's no way of "repossessing" your "product". I delivered training material and training to a company which, as for now, shall remain unnamed in March. They knew full well when they contracted my services that they couldn't pay, but needed the training to take place to boost cash flow. 6 months later they sent a letter to all unpaid suppliers that they couldn't pay and didn't know when they would be able to, yet they're still advertising training, so are they catching other unsuspecting freelancers too? My only question is, if we name and shame, can't they sue us for slander?

Dennis Comninos said:

You are right Sadie. I think it is the low response is because of the weekend and time of year. Regarding the solution, I agree it is not easy but we somehow need to address it. There should be a way to warn independent facilitators of the "dangers" of taking work from certain companies. When a company finds that it cannot get facilitators, then it might mend its policies or way of doing business. It might help to alleviate abuse of the facilitators but, like everything else, how do we prevent facilitators for abusing innocent companies?

Let's get innovative........

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Permalink Reply by Johan van der Merwe on December 7, 2009 at 9:04

Hi guys,

I am sure that it is not all service providers that does this. We don't. Ever think of collecting your money before training if you foresee a problem?

Regards,

Johan

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Permalink Reply by Johannes Francois Stoltz on December 7, 2009 at 9:06

Join the club. I had to take the legal road to get my money from a training provider. Luckily for me my son is an attorney in Port Elizabeth and did not cost me anything. I did assessing for this provider. My son has changed my original contract to read as follows:

" ...............Provider will reimburse the assessor, an amount of Rxxxx per unit standard for assessing.
The assessor undertakes to provide ...........Provider with an invoice upon discharge of his assessment obligations, which obligations will be discharged in accordance with the Code of Conduct of the relevant SETA.

The assessor undertakes to email the assessment feedback, unsigned, to ............Provider upon completion thereof. The assessor undertakes to provide ...........Provider with an invoice which invoice is due and payable by ........... Provider upon submission thereof.

............Provider undertakes to effect payment on date of submission of the invoice. Upon payment of the relevant invoices into the bank account of the assessor, the assessor undertakes to immediately make available the Portfolio of evidence to .............Provider".

This works as the provider cannot do anything without the POE's.

Hope this help.

Frikkie

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Permalink Reply by Rolf Kühnast on December 7, 2009 at 9:06

Hi Dennis, this has happened to me twice this year, and there is still an amount owing me from May 2008!!
The other game, also reported on this forum, is to use a registered facilitator / assessor / Moderator to get SETA accreditation, and then never to be heard of again!
One of the companies in question, regularly advertises on the skills portal!
All that I can suggest is to demand up-front payment with new clients.

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Permalink Reply by James Barnes on December 7, 2009 at 9:07

Hi Dennis,
I work for a training company and i know that we have also come across speakers that have had this experience. Unfortunately we are not just talking about local speakers that this is happening to. We believe that the naming and shaming should happen, and we would like to help in any way possible. We have a list of speakers that this has happened to and we would be only too willing to share this with you. If you would like to take this further please contact me by sending me a message.
Kind regards James

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Permalink Reply by Liza on December 7, 2009 at 9:19

Well even though I'm not in your predicaments, I understand the frustrations you must be going through. In the past weeks one of the biggest training company called and was just put through to HR to get rid of her. And I was the one who picked up the call and I could sense the caller frustration and anger. Before I could even tell her that I'm not actually the one dealing with payments, she gave me a list of all people she spoke to whom at this present "will call her back". Mind you these people are actually the right people, so I took the matter upon myself even though I've been with the company for 3 months now and I didn't have a clue that companies are actually "selected for payments each months". And so if you are lucky you might get part of the payment. So I followed up the matter on her behalf until one of them was able to claim responsibility of the account and action to rectify "all so called we can't pay because of" excuses. This company have been training and lodging + 20 of our apprentices for a year without payment. I am hoping that the company will get paid in 2 weeks as they promised by our FM.
And yes I agree there must be a mechanism in place to make sure that payment is received in due cause.

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Permalink Reply by Wesley Roux on December 7, 2009 at 9:21

Hi Dennis. It is no secret that companies are feeling the effects of the global recessionfor some time now, While some are battling to stay alive others had no option but to close doors. However you want to look at it, I'd say that certain companies dont place priority on certain costs, in this case payments to independant facilitators like yourself. It is a fight for survival and in desperate times, they call for desperate measures. I would advise, being straight up front from the word go, clearly defining what is expected from both parties and discuss the financial implications upfront. It is best to get a written contract signed, to avoid these situations in future.

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Permalink Reply by Yvonne on December 7, 2009 at 9:30

Dear All,

I am a freelance courseware developer selling-off Unit Standard aligned Learner Guides. I was working on the material for a certain company for the past 2 months only to be paid by a cheque that bounced last week. I am now desperate to sell-off the work so that l recover the least l can. Courses are going for R800 for the Learner Guides.

Kindly email me on ygara@ovi.com for a full list of the courses.

Regards,

Yvonne

Attachments:

• Unit Standards List.doc, 38 KB

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