Training Companies that don't pay

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Permalink Reply by Don Leffler on December 7, 2009 at 9:50

Hi All,
Naming and Shaming may be seen to be a breach of a Provider's Constitutional rights and, therefore, caution is recommended in this regard.

I am not surprised to hear of the practice of non-payment of Independent Facilitators as I too have heard of several Facilitators who have waited for unreasonable periods of time to receive payments. However, this practice is also experienced by Training Providers. At THSBS (www.thsbs.com) we have a Value system based on integrity and always ensure that our Facilitators are paid first.

We also encourage Facilitators to have formal Contracts in place to protect their rights. Similarly, Training Providers should be encouraged to have formal Contracts with their clients to safeguard their own interests and those of their Facilitators. It has, for example, become a popular practice for Training Providers to further protect their rights by requiring clients to make non-refundable deposits. However, notwithstanding such contracts, Training Providers and Independent Contractors may have to enforce their rights through legal process. This can be costly and time-consuming - as we have found after having won an Arbitration and a Review of the Arbitration but, some 4 years after Training Fees were payable, are still seeking to enforce the Arbitration Award.

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Permalink Reply by Janelle Gravett on December 7, 2009 at 9:57

I agree. Name them and make other independants aware of who they are so that they also dont get burnt. This will advise who the culprits are and they will not get many independants to do work for them. We give our best and most professional service to the company and they should behave in the same manner. I have had SLAs in place and the company still does not honour it by paying on time or not at all. Unfortunately the legal route is very costly. Ask for at least 50% up front and it covers some of the costs when the company defaults.

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Permalink Reply by Penelope on December 7, 2009 at 10:21

You are not the only one as some of us experienced providers are being exploited by companies who get the projects but outsouce and when it is time to pay they give you a different story of not being paid by the client. They even go as far as to tell you what fee they will pay you. I have now decided that i rather not be taken for a ride and rather look for my own work or rather we draw up a legal documnent that stipulates all the conditions i have now engaged in the services of an attorney to assist in this matter. My friend rather you ask for a 50% downpayment to get to started and the balance on submission of the invoice.It seems like we private providers are targets for companies/organistions. But what can we do but pray that all will come right and we get help to this painful matter of exploitation.

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Permalink Reply by George Fourie on December 7, 2009 at 10:43

Hi Dennis,

I know of various consultants who have not been paid by the training companies they delivered a service to. Consultant must make sure they have a written agreement in place which spell out the payment terms.

It happens that the training company sometimes wait up to 6 months for payment from the client and that he only pay the consultant after he got his payment from the client.

The agreement should outline the payment terms is 30 days. You can not expect the consultant to wait for the client to pay the training company.

Regards

George

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Permalink Reply by Adolph P Kaestner on December 7, 2009 at 11:14

Hi all.

Well it looks like the good old (checque is in the post" issue is rife.

First - The solution - 50% payment before the Notes and training is delivered - Then 50% on day 1 of training - If no payment received - cleared in bank on Day one - no training happens even if there are delegates there As the trainer just advise them that you cannot continue training till you get paid - thius gets things moiving fast.

Also dont pay for the tickets and accommodation yourself - they must book and supply and do settlements direct with aorlines and hotels etc. - No Ticket no Fly etc
NB Payment = eft to bank acct - not deposit slips and checques as there can still bounce

2nd - Yes lets list the Companies and CEO's of these conmpanies as they close shop and just open in another name as regulat as clockwork
Where - On some secure web site behind a user name and password - or on Hello Peter - or in a secure blog

Hope you all get your money soon
Adolph

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Permalink Reply by Tshabalala Ambilias Phofa on December 7, 2009 at 11:53

Hi Dennis

Some companies "don't" only pay, they "can't" pay. A very reputable company indicated that their cash flow has gone from bad worse and therefore will only negotiate rates and terms. However, they emphasised that they have a problem with the "slow payment they receive from their main clients, which are government departments". I don't think it is logical for them to pass their "problem" to the facilitator. As these companies are accredited with SETA, I think SETA should establish and maintain a process of monitoring and regulating the quality of their operations, including relationship with registered facilitators, assessors and monitors. SETA emphasise quality management system and therefore it should be enforced.

Regards

Tshabalala

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Permalink Reply by Templeton Mthokozeleni Mbili on December 7, 2009 at 12:55

Yes We will wish a good lucky . our company need a Training uMlazi Rock Trading cc

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Permalink Reply by Themba Mavundhla on December 7, 2009 at 14:23

Hi Dennis

Absolutely true , Iam in a situation whereby I do not commence with training if Iam not paid half in advance and balance halfway or not releasing the results before my final balance , that sounds cruel but it is the only way to secure myself. If one is doing work for a company that one is not familiar to , I guess that is the best method.
You actully right because we have no stage where we can lodge our complains. I have lost more than R 100 000 in the hands of such providers , in most cases one has to pay accommodation and or travelling from one's pocket.

I support an idea of having a protected site on this forum whereby we can name the providers without fear.

Regards
Themba

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Permalink Reply by Hannes Piek on December 7, 2009 at 16:12

Hi Everybody

Have your creditbook insured by Credit Guarentee, at a cost of 20% of the invoice amount. Failure to pay will result in some nasty surprises to the offender. One could also add a clause to one's contract in this regard, or, get the insurer to add this to the cost. This is also very helpfull when dealing with R.o.A. countries.

Kind regards

Hannes Piek

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Permalink Reply by Nqobile Zungu on December 7, 2009 at 17:19

Hi everyone

There is absolutely no need for engaging someone you know fully well that you will be unable to pay him at the completion of the services he has rendered.It is high time that we take a stand on this.I concur with someone who said "50% upfront;EFT payment,no cheque payment.If no payment made and received each day,no training on the following day.Lets also avoid arrangements that are not formalised and legal,as they turn to bite us at the end of the day.Why has someone to rejoice all the way home with a FAT Cheque when another person who did the most goes crying?

Regards
Nqobile Zungu

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Permalink Reply by sylvia hammond on December 7, 2009 at 20:30

Hi Adolf,
Interesting ideas. I will discuss with Alan as the skills portal has the training service providers section, where only those who pay the annual subscription can access, so it is secure & does already have privileged information on tenders, and so on.

Adolph P Kaestner said:

Hi all.

Well it looks like the good old (checque is in the post" issue is rife.

First - The solution - 50% payment before the Notes and training is delivered - Then 50% on day 1 of training - If no payment received - cleared in bank on Day one - no training happens even if there are delegates there As the trainer just advise them that you cannot continue training till you get paid - thius gets things moiving fast.

Also dont pay for the tickets and accommodation yourself - they must book and supply and do settlements direct with aorlines and hotels etc. - No Ticket no Fly etc
NB Payment = eft to bank acct - not deposit slips and checques as there can still bounce

2nd - Yes lets list the Companies and CEO's of these conmpanies as they close shop and just open in another name as regulat as clockwork
Where - On some secure web site behind a user name and password - or on Hello Peter - or in a secure blog

Hope you all get your money soon
Adolph

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Permalink Reply by sylvia hammond on December 7, 2009 at 20:31

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for starting such an interesting discussion - I'm sure that it will lead us to new ways of working. I've also shared it on Facebook.

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