Race and discrimination
I think ordinary South Africans like me and you are learning to deal and accept our differences, but our politicians keep bringing the racial issue to the fore. this in turn makes people to be judgemental of one onother, when interacting because the subject is always blown out of context. how long are we going to be hanging in this racial tension, where do we draw the line and learn to live with our differences and move on to make SA a better country for our future generations.
When do we start a productive life and work together without looking at the colour, age, language, religion and so on. we need one onother. what do u think?
When do we start a productive life and work together without looking at the colour, age, language, religion and so on. we need one onother. what do u think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Sekwele on -
Excuse me!
Is that what you think, until you see beyond the colour line you will realise that there is more than that in blacks and everyone?
This country is run by everyone, only if you know your position!!!!!
and for the record polygamy is not practised by blacks only, and it is a culture. love your culture and respect others.
Anthony Thebus said:I like to know what you call ordinary South Africans because I am not like you; and yes, our politicians are correct in bringing the racial issue to the fore because people are judgemental, especially if it is some issue whereby some black person is compromised in some way or the other, but if the issue affects any person other than a black person then it is not a racial issue. In other words, the country is being run for blacks by blacks and when things don't go their way, they look for someone to blame or to cry victim. This means that until blacks see themselves as people, and not black people, we will always have racial issues. It is time that blacks need to accept that South Africa did not become what is today by bartering women for cattle and polygamy and calling that culture!
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Permalink Reply by Nigel Storm Shipston on -
Hey Anthony,
Perhaps you would care to elaborate on what you consider an "acceptable" culture? What you have just done, in this public forum, has confirmed my earlier statement that bitterness is borne of insecurity. Your contempt and intolerance for other cultures is both unwarranted and rude. I must admit to writing this with great restraint. Restraint from not telling you exactly where to get off as I would normally do. It is exacty this attitude that put our country back by many years. Your false sense of superiority has no place here, nor is it conducive to any form of successful future. Perhaps you should find yourself a corner in the mother culture about which you feel so proud, and leave us ordinary South Africans to do what needs to be done. But before you leave you may also apologise to my friend Robert, if you have the same level of courage he has already shown!
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Permalink Reply by Des Squire on -
Hi Robert
I have been training for the past three days and only caught up on the discussion today. I am taken aback at some of the responss you are rceiving and feel some of the participants need to wake up and face reality. I also feel some need to send you an apology for their personal attacks on you. You posed a sincere question and recive abuse as a result. Is this not symptomatic of the society in which we live. Racism exists and will continue to exist for many years to come. Take the recent situation with Caster Semenya for instance. Some politicians and individuals such as Julius Malema immediatedly blamed it on "whites" - this is a fact. It transpires now it was in fact one of her own brothers (Leonard Chuene) who was the direct cause of the problem. I have not seen any retractions or apologies to the "whites" who were blamed. It's definitely time we stopped catagorising people, it's time we stopped putting people in boxes, It's time we stopped blaming the White Imperialists, it's time we got rid of our prejudices, but most importantly it's time we realised individuals have a right to express an opinion or to ask a question without being attacked as a person. We are all members of one race - the human race. Keep your chin up Robert and congratulations on your honourble stance.
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Permalink Reply by Phindile Makgatho on -
Anthony,
(there are so many things i want to say to you, how ever i will not stoop to your level)
I feel sorry for you, for the fact that you are still bitter,swimming in your own man made sour grapes and stuck in the past. Your comment clearly states that you are one of those people that think they made the world/ SA what it is today. It was a collective effort and for your information it's not just blacks ( as you refer to it) who cry victim or look for people to blame it is accross all races.
I see myself and who ever is next to me as a Africans and not black, you clearly are the one who does not see africans as people but blacks. I suggest you go read up on your history before you even go in the bartering women,polygamy and cultures, read up on statistics as well. People like you should just go back to the caves and stay there because you will not be able to fight change and the love africans have for each other, this site is proof of that. You clearly are one of those people that choose to be ignorant and oblivious to our beautiful diversified africa.
We are already standing together fighting woman, children abuse etc. We will do the same with this devil ( racism) as well.
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Permalink Reply by Brian V Moore on
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Dear Robert,
Please allow me to echo Des Squire's words. And to honour you for your thoughts and actions in beginning and continuing this discussion.
We deal with prejudice on a daily basis and know that whatever negativity is coming your way, comes from a sense of separation and often deep-rooted pain.
When we all understand and accept, that everybody belongs in this country - whatever their background, history and belief systems. When we inculcate this sense of belonging - we will move on from this past-programming - of colour, race and prejudice.
Our country may have (arguably) the best constitution in the World. In 1994 - we became politically free. We have yet to become emotionally and socially free.
We all have a place here. We all add to each other and we all have a role to play in creating a safe, respectful place for our children, and their children, to grow up. And this debate will hopefully contribute to that.
Our main role, in our journey through this life, should be to leave the World a better place than we found it.
We believe that action creates results...
Our Celebrating Humanity team would be delighted to facilitate a free 1 or 2 day transformational team building for the contributors to this discussion. All that we would need is a suitable venue, and for each person to bring along some food and drink for pot luck.
We would welcome other people who feel that with more understanding, we will create a new South Africa - that is finally free. (We can accommodate 24 people.)
Brian V Moore
082 554 2188
brian@africa-dreams.com
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Permalink Reply by Steve Foord on -
Quote by Peter Trollope " we criticise the masses for not earning as much as we do and therefore paying more tax?WHo is this guy? maybe he is a Railway worker or bus driver? And he compares himself to me, because he has a white skin? What did he ever do apart from earn just enough to pay taxes? "
You have just done exactly the same as he did. Read your letter carefully and think about it. Whether he was right or wrong in what he said, you have done exactly what he did.
You critisize him on the grounds of what you think he may have done for a living.Quote " maybe he is a Railway worker or bus driver? " Maybe he was also denied success for some or other reason eg. not as intellegent as you or maybe came from a poor home and didn't get the education you got. Maybe he just wanted to be a Quote " Railway worker or bus driver " Anyway even railway workers and bus drivers are people. They are as integral a part of society as Doctors, Lawyers and Trainers. People talk of racism all the time which by the way is " Alive and Well " in every corner of the earth, it's not about colour, but they do not think that they discriminate every day, not necessarily against another race, very often just another class of people. Watch a man, in an overall, walk into a bar full of business people having a drink after work and watch the looks he will get. Do the business men have to go home and bath and dress before they can have a drink? Why should he? Why look down on him, somebody has to fix your car or drive the train. Everybody thinks they are more important than the next. Rubbish. Every job on earth is as important as the next. One doesn't survive without the other.
Secondly if he is a Quote " Railway worker or bus driver " and earns less than you and pays less tax than you. Quote " What did he ever do apart from earn just enough to pay taxes? " isn't that the way it works or should he pay as much tax as you? Quote " And he compares himself to me, because he has a white skin? What did he ever do apart from earn just enough to pay taxes? ".
Does that mean only white people who earn as much as you are allowed to compare themselves to you. Life is shouldn't be about who earns what but unfortunately most of the time it is and that has it own form of " Racism ". Racism, Elitism it's all the same for different reasons. When last did you go to a Lawyers party and meet his plumber? I think it is time the whole world got off their high moral horse and started to see themselves more clearly.
Last and definately not least South African people should stop thinking that racism is unique to this country and to white people. I have a list of every country in the world taken from an internet encyclopedia and have made a list of all of them and their racism. It's in every country in the world and I defy anybody to show me just one where there is none. It also always goes both ways. In South Africa I get called " Umlungu " daily which is a derogatory remark. In Germany I was called " Weisse Neger " by a white German guy because I come from Africa.
Think hard next time you refer to someone as just a Quote " Railway worker or bus driver ".
PS. When you say what does he think black people are, Quote " his gardener or some factory worker". What colour is your gardener and your tea lady?
Final parting note and I must say not all black people or white people before I go any further. They act like race means nothing to them but wait till a black person takes a white person home and says " Dad we are getting married " or a white person brings a black person home and does the same then talk about racism. God forbid he or she is just a railway worker or bus driver.
Peter John Trollope said:You put some people together from diverse backgrounds and cultures and racial groups in a sports team and tell them to work together so as to win and they will kill for each other. The other team becomes the enemy. You put some catholics together and tell them that protestants are trying to take over there life and they will kill each other. You tell some white people that the blacks are after them and they will defend themselves. You tell some black people that all white people are...... and you will have trouble.
The problem is all about focus. It is all about boxes and labels.It is all about groups and division. When we focus on common goals, like the sports team, then the conflict reduces.
People fail to try to really understand the other party. Instead they try to defend and justify their position and create more division.I was reading some responses from people to a comment from a black lady on Mweb. WOw, the hatred and pent up anger was mindblowing. The white guy responding refered to "us" the tax paying lot, and the blacks as the non contributors.For a long time apartheid denied blacks any form of success(unless they committed to being a politician in a homeland state), and now we want to say what..... we criticise the masses for not earning as much as we do and therefore paying more tax?.Furthermore he went on to say that it was "us" that really made things happen.WHo is this guy? maybe he is a Railway worker or bus driver? And he compares himself to me, because he has a white skin? What did he ever do apart from earn just enough to pay taxes? Millions of Black guys are now in jobs earning more than he will ever earn and being taxed appropriately and he thinks that he is paying for everything in the country?
The same happens from the other side when "whites" are labelled collectively by some angry black oke.
Diversity and variety is not a problem or a threat,it is an opportunity. We need to stop focussing on and fueling our differences, and rather look at the achievement of our common goals and aspirations.
Small stands by individuals, like ripples, magnify and cause change - what jokes did you laugh at the last braai? Are you contributing towards fuelling racialism and division?
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Permalink Reply by Robert Sekwele on
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Thaks for the offer, i hope we can organise something and get the free training guys!!!!!!
Big up Brian
Brian V Moore said:Dear Robert,
Please allow me to echo Des Squire's words. And to honour you for your thoughts and actions in beginning and continuing this discussion.
We deal with prejudice on a daily basis and know that whatever negativity is coming your way, comes from a sense of separation and often deep-rooted pain.
When we all understand and accept, that everybody belongs in this country - whatever their background, history and belief systems. When we inculcate this sense of belonging - we will move on from this past-programming - of colour, race and prejudice.
Our country may have (arguably) the best constitution in the World. In 1994 - we became politically free. We have yet to become emotionally and socially free.
We all have a place here. We all add to each other and we all have a role to play in creating a safe, respectful place for our children, and their children, to grow up. And this debate will hopefully contribute to that.
Our main role, in our journey through this life, should be to leave the World a better place than we found it.
We believe that action creates results...
Our Celebrating Humanity team would be delighted to facilitate a free 1 or 2 day transformational team building for the contributors to this discussion. All that we would need is a suitable venue, and for each person to bring along some food and drink for pot luck.
We would welcome other people who feel that with more understanding, we will create a new South Africa - that is finally free. (We can accommodate 24 people.)
Brian V Moore
082 554 2188
brian@africa-dreams.com
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Permalink Reply by Nthabiseng Kgagudi on -
Hi
This is such a sensitive topic considering that racism is still sadly highly in existence. I have been a victim many times & it is such an unpleasant experience when you are being made to feel that you are black and not good,clever enough. Sad thing is that government is doing its utmost best to change this but it is a working progress we should also remember that it is not easy for those that are still racist to change their mindsets and this will take years. The present generation is paving ways for the next generation maybe by then things will have changed and racism will cease to exist.
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Permalink Reply by nombulelo ndinisa on
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i agree with you.a lot of people use racism as an excuse when bad behaviour or perfomance is challenged.i
like the last bit of your post.we are all the same irrespective of the color of the skin.
Wilma said:Robert, I totally agree with you. However, it is not only politicians that are guilty of bringing up the racial issue. There are many people that use this an excuse. It happened to me that somebody was rude to me and when I commented on her being rude, I was blamed as being a racist to say something like that to her. It was not her race that I addressed, but her rude behaviour. We should focus more on our similarities and respect each others' differences.
I attended a show of Chris Chameleon (Afrikaans singer) and he said at the end of his programme: When we look at somebody else, even if the person is dirty and a drunk, we must remember that the MAN up there that made you, also made that person.
Regards
Wilma
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