Fair pay for Facilitators, Assessors and Moderators

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lisa Amanda Bradshaw on August 23, 2010 at 22:35

Hi Don

This is a very interesting topic because of the wide range of pricing out there!! I have facilitated SA Host workshops for theta and other training and we get paid R5000 a day. On some occassions this has meant a trip to Bloemfontein. Those in Bloemfontein got paid the same R5000 but obviously were in the right place for the debrief!!!

I do quite a lot of work for TEP which is Tourism Enterprise project. There the payment is anything from R3200 for the day for a basic cusstomer care course to R4500 for the day when dealing business skills, marketing and computer internet training. They also pay R2.80 per km for petrol and if you travel hotel and all meals, lunch being covered by what we eat on the workshop. I gave a rate of R2500 the other day and did not get the job because I was too expensive!! I have been in the business a long time. Surely my expertise counts. In most jobs you get a yearly rise. We are always cut down to the cost of a new trainer on the block!!

I would like to use this forum to also discuss the tendering norm if possible. I was asked to do the work as an accreditered provider for someone who got the original tender. A tender we did not get and I have since heard we were the lower price!! I am appalled at how much you end up getting paid for doing everything. The provider who is not accreditered gets the tender and pays you minimum for your accreditation and expertise. Do we not have industry norms. As part of this skills universe should we not all try to be part of a best practise agreement where we are fair!!

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Permalink Reply by sylvia hammond on August 24, 2010 at 9:28

Hi Amanda,
I have had similar experiences with payment. I like your idea of skills-universe members developing some good practice guidelines and also a matrix of facilitator rates - possibly based on qualifications & experience? I would suggest that an experienced facilitator, who can provide practical examples to illustrate the material should be at a higher rate.

Lisa Amanda Bradshaw said:

Hi Don

This is a very interesting topic because of the wide range of pricing out there!! I have facilitated SA Host workshops for theta and other training and we get paid R5000 a day. On some occassions this has meant a trip to Bloemfontein. Those in Bloemfontein got paid the same R5000 but obviously were in the right place for the debrief!!!

I do quite a lot of work for TEP which is Tourism Enterprise project. There the payment is anything from R3200 for the day for a basic cusstomer care course to R4500 for the day when dealing business skills, marketing and computer internet training. They also pay R2.80 per km for petrol and if you travel hotel and all meals, lunch being covered by what we eat on the workshop. I gave a rate of R2500 the other day and did not get the job because I was too expensive!! I have been in the business a long time. Surely my expertise counts. In most jobs you get a yearly rise. We are always cut down to the cost of a new trainer on the block!!

I would like to use this forum to also discuss the tendering norm if possible. I was asked to do the work as an accreditered provider for someone who got the original tender. A tender we did not get and I have since heard we were the lower price!! I am appalled at how much you end up getting paid for doing everything. The provider who is not accreditered gets the tender and pays you minimum for your accreditation and expertise. Do we not have industry norms. As part of this skills universe should we not all try to be part of a best practise agreement where we are fair!!

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Permalink Reply by Hennie Potgieter on August 24, 2010 at 11:15

HI

Would this not constitute anti competitive behaviour?

Hennie

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Permalink Reply by Henk on August 24, 2010 at 11:30

Hi Don
Thanks for the toipic , I see these are more based on the private and business sectors .
What will the rates be then in the mining sector?

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Permalink Reply by Theresa Cook on August 24, 2010 at 11:35

There are various factors regardsing fees payable, and one would need to look perhaps at the following when determining costs:
Is the fee just for facilitation;
Is the programme designed by the facilitator, or is the facilitator presenting someone elses material;
Is the facilitator presenting on a scare skill, i.e., not many other people have the specific skill or qualification;
Is the fee inclusive or exclsuive of travel, accommodation; venue hire, files/handouts, etc.
Years of experience and reputation also play a large role

I have also found that the industry in which you practice, for example, hospitality, security, banking, etc. does have an impact in terms of what is affordable for that particular industry/client, and that the facilitator could adjsut thier cost accordingly.

As with Doctors, there are set rates, but we are always willing to pay for specialist skills - just as with facilitators.

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Permalink Reply by Hennie van der Merwe on August 24, 2010 at 11:53

Hi all,
I know of providers who quote enormous amounts per assessment [as part of the total “course cost”] and then pay the assessor R50, 00 per assessment [not even paying for second or third attempts assessments]... Providers quoting R5 – 15 000, 00 per U/S for developments and them pay the actual developer R 200, 00 per Course [integrating two or three U/S]. My personal opinion at this point is.....greed...

How many of you are aware of the fact that the South African Labour Force is considered as one of the most [if not the most] expensive in the world...?
It’s nice to be paid R5000, 00 per day [excluding expenses], but how much of that money actually gets to the person performing the actual work?

I followed a number of discussions on Skills Universe relating to pricing up to now..... And have to be honest - I am shocked – assessors being paid up to R1000, 00 per assessment..? What is the cost of the course then? That is if/that the provider can afford this price? I actually went as far as posting an “article” on Skills Universe inviting providers to contact me directly for “better prices” relating to assessments; moderations and developments – till today I have not received ANY response... Makes you wonder...

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Permalink Reply by Vincent Zulu on August 24, 2010 at 11:59

Interesting topic. I have a training company but I also facilitate occasionally.

Facilitator rates tend to vary according to the programme, the training provider and duration. My average price has been R1, 500 per day. I must say I condier that to be on the low side of what I consider a fair price. One company wanted to pay me R1, 000 on the basis of the programme being offered over 5 days saying they would have paid R1, 500 per day if it was only one day.

I normally pay facilitators an average of R2, 000 per day. I would not pay more than R3500 per day.

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Permalink Reply by Sandra De Leo on August 24, 2010 at 12:02

There are rates for facilitation, then there are rates for training plus assessment and moderation. For NQ unit standard based training I calculate a rate based on the number of credits. The credits giving a good indication of the time required for material design,training and assessment.
What I find difficult is deciding on how to set the rates for re-assessment; whether to add this posibility into the initial rate, or to quote separately for re-assessment. To be fair to the client not all learners need re-assessment. And on the other hand, re-assessment takes time and resources and is not that easy to plan.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Amanda Bradshaw on August 24, 2010 at 13:11

Companies charge between R800 to R1500 a day for a workshop. The trainer then gets paid R2000. SOmetimes you have 40 people on a workshop. R32000 for the organiser and R2000 for the trainer!! I know venue hire and food come into this but are'nt we underselling ourselves as trainers!! If you use a useless trainer these people will not be back for more workshops!!

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Permalink Reply by Liezl van der Westhuizen on August 24, 2010 at 13:26

Hi Theresa,

I think your contribution to this topic is most helpful. I would like to add to this:

Is the person facilitating a one-day course, short course, skills programme or learnership - and over what time frame period?

Are the facilitator also a registered assessor at the relevant SETA?
Does the facilitation include assessment of PoE's - amount of US's / Credits on what level and over what time frame period?

Theresa Cook said:

There are various factors regardsing fees payable, and one would need to look perhaps at the following when determining costs:
Is the fee just for facilitation; Is the programme designed by the facilitator, or is the facilitator presenting someone elses material; Is the facilitator presenting on a scare skill, i.e., not many other people have the specific skill or qualification; Is the fee inclusive or exclsuive of travel, accommodation; venue hire, files/handouts, etc.
Years of experience and reputation also play a large role

I have also found that the industry in which you practice, for example, hospitality, security, banking, etc. does have an impact in terms of what is affordable for that particular industry/client, and that the facilitator could adjsut thier cost accordingly.

As with Doctors, there are set rates, but we are always willing to pay for specialist skills - just as with facilitators.

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Permalink Reply by Rolf Kühnast on August 24, 2010 at 13:29

Hi Don, How long is a piece of string?
What constitutes a fair rate will be determined by your client; charge too much, and you will not get the assignment. Charge too little, and you are short-charging yourself.

As a freelancer, you are probably far more competent than the fulltime staff, so you should be able to charge more. But anyway, any registered training provider will always use their fulltime staff, rather than a freelancer.

I charge anything from R250 to R400 per hour for facilitation to corporate clients. Assessment is separate, and is adjusted according to the quality of submitted portfolios, but is not less than the hourly facilitation rate.

As a facilitator associated to a registered training provider I can get R200 per hour. This includes assessment, and the setting of FSA's.

Moderation and assessment are charged separately, as is course development.
I recently did RPL for a client and charged R450 per hour, which after the event, I felt was too low!

I hope that this answers some of your questions.

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Permalink Reply by Rolf Kühnast on August 24, 2010 at 13:43

Hi Hennie,
This highlights a point that I made elsewhere in this forum,

This whole process of OBE as it is practised here, is horrendously expensive, due to the massive bureaucracy that has been created.

South Africa also does not have the resources to put such a system into place economically.!



Hennie van der Merwe said:

Hi all,
I know of providers who quote enormous amounts per assessment [as part of the total “course cost”] and then pay the assessor R50, 00 per assessment [not even paying for second or third attempts assessments]... Providers quoting R5 – 15 000, 00 per U/S for developments and them pay the actual developer R 200, 00 per Course [integrating two or three U/S]. My personal opinion at this point is.....greed...

How many of you are aware of the fact that the South African Labour Force is considered as one of the most [if not the most] expensive in the world...?
It’s nice to be paid R5000, 00 per day [excluding expenses], but how much of that money actually gets to the person performing the actual work?

I followed a number of discussions on Skills Universe relating to pricing up to now..... And have to be honest - I am shocked – assessors being paid up to R1000, 00 per assessment..? What is the cost of the course then? That is if/that the provider can afford this price? I actually went as far as posting an “article” on Skills Universe inviting providers to contact me directly for “better prices” relating to assessments; moderations and developments – till today I have not received ANY response... Makes you wonder...

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